Kinesthetic Existential Kink With Renee Rose | Penetrate Radio, Episode 2
In Episode 2 of Penetrate Radio, Lucy Baldwin speaks with Renee Rose, a bestselling romance author, money mindset coach for writers, and certified Existential Kink coach, about shadow work, success, embodiment, money, writing, and the power of feeling radical approval in the body.
Renee brings a wonderfully grounded and kinesthetic perspective to Existential Kink. Instead of treating the practice as something to figure out mentally, she describes it as an energetic reversal: the moment when you stop pushing away the unwanted experience and begin pulling it into the body as power, fuel, and life force.
This conversation is about success, desire, creative vocation, nervous system safety, radical self-acceptance, and the strange relief that comes when you stop fighting reality and begin letting it feed you.
Watch or listen to Episode 2 of Penetrate Radio here:
Key Takeaways
In this episode, Lucy and Renee explore:
Existential Kink as a felt, kinesthetic practice
how radical approval can become a source of personal power
Renee’s path from technical writing to bestselling kinky romance novels
why shadow work helped Renee reclaim exiled parts of herself
how money mindset work changes when it includes the body
why resisting reality drains energy
how pulling an unwanted experience inward can create strength
the relationship between success, identity, creativity, and desire
why “I am already a real author” can be more powerful than external validation
how grief, sadness, and uncomfortable emotions become less frightening when they are allowed
the question: “Am I willing to love myself enough to let myself have this?”
From Technical Writer to Bestselling Romance Author
Renee Rose’s story begins with writing, but not in the way she originally expected. She studied writing in a highbrow environment where romance was not taken seriously, then set the dream aside and became a technical writer. When she eventually encountered romance novels, she discovered a form that felt alive, positive, erotic, and aligned with her actual desire.
That discovery became a portal. Renee wrote her first novella quickly, found a niche publisher, and received an early signal that this path might be right for her. The success did not mean everything was easy afterward, but it did feel like reality had opened a door and said, “This is a good match.”
This matters because creative vocation is often not found by following what sounds impressive. It is often found through what feels strangely obvious once you allow yourself to want it.
Shadow Work as Reclaiming the Exiled Self
Renee describes shadow work as a process that allowed her to reclaim parts of herself that had been pushed away. She compares it to the emotional world in Inside Out, where certain feelings are sent to the back until they eventually flood forward.
That is a powerful image for shadow work. When we decide that certain feelings, desires, pleasures, or identities are unacceptable, we do not actually get rid of them. We simply lose conscious relationship with them. They still affect us, but now they operate from the basement.
Existential Kink gave Renee a way to bring those exiled parts back into the field of approval. Instead of treating half of herself as wrong, she could begin to include it. That inclusion did not make her weaker or more indulgent. It made her feel more whole, more powerful, and more available to her own life.
Existential Kink Has to Be Felt
One of the most important teachings in this conversation is that Existential Kink cannot be reduced to mental gymnastics. You can understand the concept and still miss the practice if you are only thinking your way around the pattern.
For Renee, the work is kinesthetic. She can feel the reversal in her body. Something appears in her life that she dislikes, hates, resists, or finds disgusting, and instead of pushing it away, she imagines pulling it in. The energy that had been spent resisting the experience comes back as power.
This is a beautiful way to understand radical approval. It is not a thought you paste over pain. It is a shift in relationship to sensation. The body stops bracing against reality, and the charge that was trapped in resistance can begin to move.
Radical Approval Is an Energetic Reversal
Radical approval is often misunderstood as forced positivity, but Renee’s description makes the opposite clear. This is not about saying, “Everything happens for a reason,” in a way that bypasses pain or makes people want to scream.
The shift is much more embodied. When you are resisting what is happening, your energy is being used to push against reality. When you turn toward the experience and say, “I created this,” or “I am willing to have this,” something changes. The charge comes inward instead of bouncing off the shield of resistance.
That does not mean you consciously wanted the situation. It does not mean you should not act. It means you stop wasting so much energy arguing with what has already arrived. Once the energy is back inside you, you can decide what to do with it.
The Return to Positivity Through the Shadow
Lucy and Renee also talk about a surprising paradox: deep shadow work can bring you back to positivity, but through a completely different door.
Many spiritual seekers begin with law of attraction, positivity, or the belief that good thoughts create good results. Eventually, that can become thin if it does not include the shadow. If you are trying to be positive while secretly rejecting your grief, selfishness, rage, desire, or fear, the positivity becomes brittle.
Shadow work descends into the unwanted material. It lets the dark, taboo, selfish, ugly, and resistant parts be included. Then, strangely, joy becomes more available again. Life becomes more fun because you are not using all your energy to maintain a spiritual mask.
This is not positivity as performance. It is positivity that returns after the rejected material has been welcomed home.
Money, Success, and the Pleasure of Lacking
Because Renee works with writers around money mindset, this conversation naturally moves into money, success, and the strange ways people can get attached to not having what they want.
Existential Kink is useful here because money issues are rarely only practical. They are charged with identity, shame, worth, resentment, fantasy, fear, family stories, ambition, and hidden pleasure. There can be a secret enjoyment in lack, struggle, proving, striving, being overlooked, or waiting for the future moment when success finally arrives.
This does not mean you are bad for having money struggles. It means the pattern may contain more energy than you think. When you can find the hidden charge inside lack, the whole structure begins to loosen.
Becoming “A Real Author” Before the External Proof
One of the most powerful moments in the episode is Renee’s realization around being a “real author.”
Even after selling many books, there were still external markers that seemed to hold symbolic power: a book signing at Barnes and Noble, a traditional publishing deal, books in airports, books on screen. These desires are not wrong. It is beautiful to want them.
But Renee describes the shift of realizing that she could have the identity now. She could be a real author before the next external box was checked. The external achievements might still come, but they did not need to carry the entire burden of making her legitimate.
This is a profound piece of magic for creative people. You do not have to wait for the world to confer the identity before you inhabit it. Sometimes the identity must be claimed first, and the external form follows more easily once you are no longer begging it to prove your worth.
Faith, Free Will, and Not Arguing With Reality
Lucy and Renee also explore the tension between radical acceptance and free will. It is one thing to say, “Do not resist what is.” It is another thing to feel that in the face of real suffering, danger, grief, or fear.
Renee shares her resistance to certain forms of total acceptance, especially when they seem to leave no room for asking, wanting, praying, choosing, or imposing will. This is an important nuance. Shadow Alchemy is not about becoming passive. It is not about lying down and pretending desire does not matter.
The deeper practice is learning how to stop arguing with what has already happened while still allowing yourself to want, act, ask, and create. You can accept reality and still make a request. You can radically approve what is and still choose your next move.
Feeling Sadness Without Fear
Toward the end of the episode, Renee speaks about her daughter leaving for college and the fear of being sad for too long. She realized that part of her nervous system believed something terrible would happen if sadness stayed for more than a few days.
This is such a common pattern. Many people are not only afraid of the event itself. They are afraid of the feeling they imagine the event will create. They fear that grief will swallow them, depression will become permanent, or sadness will mean something has gone wrong.
But when sadness is allowed, it can become more livable. It may last longer than expected, but that does not mean it is dangerous. It means something real is moving through the body.
Existential Kink helps because it teaches us that sensation can be survived, felt, and even loved without needing to immediately fix it.
The Kinesthetic Practice of Pulling It In
Renee’s embodied practice is simple and potent. When something unwanted appears, she notices the resistance, then imagines pulling the experience inward rather than pushing it away.
This is not the same as approving harm or refusing boundaries. It is a way of reclaiming energy. The unwanted thing is no longer outside her as an enemy. It becomes part of the field of experience, something that can feed her, strengthen her, open her heart, and restore power.
For people who tend to think too much about shadow work, this is a helpful correction. You do not have to solve every pattern intellectually. Sometimes the practice is to feel the disgust, resistance, fear, lack, sadness, or charge, and then let the body include it.
The Central Question: Can You Let Yourself Have It?
One of the most important questions from this episode is:
Are you willing to love yourself enough to let yourself have what you desire?
This question cuts through a lot of complexity. It points directly to the possibility that you may be the one withholding the thing from yourself, not because you are bad, but because some part of you is afraid, protective, loyal to an old identity, or attached to the current pattern.
Loving yourself enough to let yourself have it does not mean bypassing your pain. It means honoring your truth, your boundaries, your grief, your joy, your desire, and your resistance. It means not hiding from what is real inside you.
That kind of love is not sentimental. It is powerful.
The Real Gift of Kinesthetic Existential Kink
The gift of kinesthetic Existential Kink is that it brings the work out of abstraction. It is not merely a philosophy about hidden pleasure or a clever reframe for suffering. It is something that happens in the body when resistance turns into contact.
You feel the pattern. You feel the no. You feel the charge. You feel the strange yes. You pull the energy inward, and something that once drained you begins to feed you.
That is why this work can be so transformative. It does not ask you to become someone else. It asks whether you can finally stop pushing away the parts of your life that are already asking to be metabolized.
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speaker-1 (00:14.958)
Hello, welcome to Penetrate Radio. I am Lucy Baldwin. And today I have with me Renee Rose, who is a bestselling author. She's actually sold millions of copies of her Smutty Romance novels that she's written. But she also works with writers around money mindset and yeah, just helping writers get to the level that she's at. And she's also a certified existential kink coach.
I would love to hear more about your background, how you got into writing your Smutty romance novels.
Yeah. So no, so I was actually, I went to college to be a writer and that they were very highbrow. So we weren't allowed to like read romance or anything like that. And so, you know, I shelved it in favor of like getting a job as a technical writer. And then someone handed me a romance novel and I was like, my God, I love this. know, there's sex. It's about like positivity, which I was like little miss sunshine based on like early
law of attraction stuff, you know, so I was like, it's happily ever after. And, this is my jam. And so I sat down, I sat down and wrote the first novella in like six days and it was published two weeks later. It was kind of a crazy, yeah, like a, just the convergence of, well, cause then I discovered there was like spanky romance, which is my kink. And I was like, I got this. Like,
Wow.
speaker-0 (01:49.815)
I wrote it really fast.
It just came right through you.
I was like, that's all I think about. So let me just write that in a book. And then I just had like, got in with a niche publisher who was doing Kinky Romance and they had like just hired an editor. Mine was the first thing to come across his desk. And so he just like edited it and put it up. And like my first check was $1,200 and I was like, do profession found.
Wow.
And then of course it wasn't that easy after that, but I felt like the universe was going like, hey, this is a good match for you.
speaker-1 (02:24.374)
Yeah. And then how many books have you written since then?
I've lost track. It's probably a hundred in the hundred fifty range.
Wow. Wow. I always think that is so amazing when people are just prolifically. And yeah, because you mentioned recently, you're trying to bring your word count back up to kind of where it used to be.
Yes. Yeah, so I used to publish like, I guess on average, like 10 books a year. And last year was six. So I'm, I've slowed down and yeah, I don't know if it's menopause, you know, menopause, like I'm just distractible now, like it's a little, but yeah, I do. I'm like, I'm using your Saturn course to get that focus back. And also like I used to create from lack, like I used to create from like the hamster wheel, like I'm not good enough. And I was trying to prove I was good enough with the writing.
I was trying to prove like every time I hit USA Day list, it was like, am I good enough now? You know, I had to get to seven figures like now am I good enough? Like I was still trying to like prove that I was worthy in some way. And so now that that, you know, through existential kink, like that kink is gone. How like, what is the joy of creation? Like what, what's going to drive me? Is it going to be just pure fun? Like that first book was I would love that, you know.
speaker-1 (03:40.398)
Wow, so I mean that's almost like a book a month.
Yeah, it was like every four to six weeks.
I'm so curious. I'm so curious, like how many, how much time are you spending writing like per day?
about three hours.
And you have like a pretty solid routine with that where you're just like writing for like three hours. Is that every day or certain days a week?
speaker-0 (04:08.364)
It's supposed to be, well, it's supposed to be Monday through Friday. And when I say three hours, like that's what I would like it to be exactly. But it's more like I sit and open things on my computer and then don't write for three hours.
And that's what you mean by you're distracted.
Yeah, very distractively. I think with the ADD, I'm little neuro spicy, I'd be better. I do well at a busy cafe where it's loud and then I have to focus in. I don't know why I'm telling you this and not just taking myself to a cafe right now.
Well, so, okay. Now, I know big part of your story is that you, and you already sort of alluded to this, you were really into that sort of like positivity and then you found EK. Can you tell me your story with that?
Yeah, so I think I realized recently that
speaker-0 (05:04.686)
So early when I was 16, my brother attempted suicide several times and ended up with like a schizophrenia diagnosis. And I think my 16 year old self made some decisions at that time that it was not okay to be depressed or sad or, you know, or I'd go that way. Like I'd end up in a hospital and I'd end up, know, like, and so I think I really ran from anything that wasn't toxically positive. Like,
bolted out the door, you know, like, with my tail on fire.
you know, including like leaving a marriage after cheating without ever saying, I'm angry, know, like just, like just making, just having to make it so good for the kids, you know, just really, you know, just really had to make it all like just never having never allowed to have anger, never allowed to have rage, never, you know, I just really, wasn't willing to address those emotions, you know,
And so it up between, I'd wrote Right to Riches, which was like for authors to use abundance mindset. And then there was a relationship that like sort of brought it all to head. And that was like, and then I started writing Relax to Riches was like really looking at your shadow side. And right then, of course, the universe brought everything to me, including the existential kink book. And then I joined the,
certification program and really like to me that it was like I don't know you know in the movie my gosh the super cute kids movie that's like about the little girl who moves and then it's like her my god I'm so sorry names of things
speaker-0 (07:00.542)
And she has feelings and her feelings have names like joy and then inside out. So in inside out too, you know, she just keeps chucking the like sad feelings to the back until they all like flood forward. And that was kind of what was happening for me. like, I hadn't addressed any of that stuff. And so I, as soon as I did, I got to have my full self. Like it was like finding personal power because that was half of myself was getting. Just, you know,
Inside Out.
speaker-0 (07:30.392)
chucked to the back, like, you know, I was cutting myself off from half of myself. And so as soon as I like, you know, had radical approval for all the stuff that I didn't think was okay, I had all of me. And then I was like, fucking unstoppable. Sorry, I don't know if we can curse on this. Go for it. Okay.
Wow. So I'm curious, like, did this kind of happen all at once? Did it happen over a couple of months? Like, take me through the process.
I mean, it was probably months. Um, and it was that thing, you know, it like, was writing a chapter in relaxed to riches. And then, I don't know, somehow I found the excess, which I'd had the existential kink book for years. So something that made me pick it back up. don't remember what now. Um, Oh, it was, um, Iris Beagle hole. I was having, I was doing a coaching call with her. I was coaching her. She's another, um,
really successful author who also did the training. And she was like, you have to listen to the audio because Carolyn's voice is so amazing. And so I did and I was like, oh my God, this is exactly what I needed. This is what I've been missing my whole life. why did I not, like people had been recommending it forever because I'm kinky, like sexually kinky, but it's really not about sex, of course, which is why I had put it away. was like, oh, this is not sex. This is philosophy, forget it.
Like
speaker-0 (09:02.158)
So yeah, so then that ended up being like the doors that opened the whole, you know, shadow work to me. That was so amazing.
I'm super curious and I think maybe this is kind of the obvious question. But writing these sort of kinky romance novels and being really into this kink, do you think that that was some kind of like backdoor outlet for you for these things that you were suppressing?
I mean, definitely. think my writing was always like trying to work out and I think trying to work out like deepest fears and deepest humiliations, right? So like, I'm writing Kinky Romance where she's always, you know, abdicating power, right? And she's put in these, you know, humiliating situations or like power, you know, power exchange situations to explore
you know, me not willing, being willing to take my own power, right? Or making that kinky. And it's a way, you know, I think it is a way we explore our darkness, right? Yeah. I mean, we know that rape fantasy is like 30 % of women have it. And I think that's a way of, you know, a exploring, our fears of living in a misogynistic society and B.
exploring a darkness we.
speaker-0 (10:42.326)
Yeah, a kinky side that we're unwilling to acknowledge, I guess.
Yeah. I'm curious, you feel like how, like the way that you wrote your characters, do you think it changed after coming to this? Yeah.
It's changed a lot. And what I'm working on now, because I just did, I just finished Kaja Urbaniak's like course on verbal self-defense dojo. And so now my characters can like negotiate better. Like where they have their power when they're negotiating something, you know, because, because writing is how I learn, right? Or it's how I embody things or how I play with it or, know.
So you're, yeah, you're always like applying these things into your books. remember when we, I remember interviewing you for the EK certification program and you said that you wanted to, you were like, I want to put this into my books.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, anytime someone can recognize
speaker-0 (11:48.258)
their own projections, right, their own wounds. So in a romance that is really like what's stopping them is just their projection.
Mm-hmm.
And so the, you the reader's always rooting for them to like get over themselves and let themselves have love. And that's really like our, all of our, our own love stories with ourself. That's the same theme. It's like, we're projecting something like I'm not enough. And so like the other day I was channeling and I just heard, I was like, going to ask the universe for something. And they were like, when are you going to love yourself enough to allow yourself to have that? And I was like, Ooh, okay. So.
That feels like truth. Like, when am I gonna love myself enough to love myself to have that?
Yeah, it's kind of, yeah, so it's like the same pattern, like the same story over and over.
speaker-0 (12:39.82)
Yeah.
Yeah, like, am I going to ask Saturn to make it to make the words happen? Or am I going to love myself enough to set up this structure to make them? You know, it's like, I know I'm saying the same thing, but there's a nuance there that like, I wasn't getting, you know, that it's, it's like what you said at the beginning of the melt course, which is like, you are sovereign, like, take responsibility. If you realize you're responsible. And that piece, I realized like that, the reverse of that is that you do become
positive, but not toxically positive. Because if you see that you are responsible for everything, that you've created everything, then
then when something shows up that feels like it don't like, you have that like, I'm not gonna argue with reality, I'm not gonna be in resistance, then you can just bounce off. Like you just bounce off it to something else. But if you go into resistance and you become a victim of it, you just collapsed all your possibilities.
Exactly. Yes, yes, exactly. That's such a beautiful way of framing it.
speaker-0 (13:47.436)
Yeah. So it's like I could literally see like the bounciness and then I was like, and then that makes you positive. but not toxically, but you know, like, because you, you allowed yourself to just have, and that I think that you allowed yourself to have the existential kink of it. Like when you have radical approval for what is, right, you're not in resistance of what is like you're having that.
speaker-0 (14:13.016)
that, you know, it's like what people say, the toxically positive is like, it must be meant to be. And that makes you want to like kick someone in the nuts for saying that. Right. But if you're like radical approval, like I created this. It's like kinesthetically, you can feel the reversal. And that's where I say the power, because the resistance, like you're using so much energy to resist. And when you flip it around, you can feel the.
Yes.
speaker-0 (14:41.932)
you're pulling it in, you're pulling the experience in and then it fuels you, it becomes your personal power.
Exactly. And then you get to decide what to do with it and you get to decide what it means too, because there's so much about meaning. All of that resistance and stuff, it's all about the meaning that we make of things, the stories that we wrap around things. And so we get to choose the story that we tell about it. that's everything. That's the framing of it. yeah.
Yeah, I was thinking about this too, because kind of what you're saying with like bouncing off and you're you're you are kind of back in positivity because we were just recording the first episode of this series and we were talking about kind of leaning into the shadow and how I think a lot of us were in that sort of spiritual bypass the positivity like spiritual world because we were all sort of spiritual seekers. But when we found this sort of like shadow integration piece, I mean, for me, it just landed right in my body like
her thong. Like this is what was missing. And interestingly though, like leaning into the shadow and kind of leaning into those things that we've been resisting, it brings us full circle back to positivity.
That's what I was like, how ironic. Now I am positive.
speaker-1 (15:57.922)
Right, like it brings us to self-love, but it's like whole. just like we were just saying, like you felt like you then had your whole self because it's a much, it's true self-love, it's embodied self-love.
Yeah. And I know you said in the, you said in the melt course, I'm sure you said it also in our training, but that like a lot of times when you arrive at, at the full receiving of your existential kink, gets funny. Like it just lightens up. Like usually you do end up laughing. Like, and I was coaching someone, she was really mad at her ex, because he, he lied in court and said she lied about the abuse that she suffered.
And it's been years, been 10 years and she's still just pissed off all the time. And I get that because I was feeling that too with a relationship. And so I was like, well, could you just have rattle approval of you are a liar? And she started laughing. She's just remembered this time, like she and her friends when they were like, just had turned 21 would go to the club and pretend to be someone else. Like, and it just made her laugh. but all that effort was in resistance. I am not a liar. I'm not a liar. And as soon as she was like, I'm
radical approval of me being a liar, was like, haha, okay, I have lied. And I had fun doing it. It just flipped around into like, it just bubbled up into laughter, which I just think is this beautiful process, right?
Yeah.
speaker-1 (17:24.884)
Yeah, no, I love that. I have so much fun with stuff like that. you know, somebody will accuse me. also have a I have a long term custody drama with the father of my kids. You know, we've been divorced for like nine years and he still tries to stir stuff up. And I was recently called selfish. And I was just like. I would be horrified.
to consider that somebody would accuse me of not being selfish. Like, of course I'm selfish. What do mean? Like, to imply that I wouldn't want to be perceived as selfish. Like, just, you know, I really what leaned into the kind of like joy and drama and play of like, yes, of course I'm selfish. I would never deny that. I would never deny that. In fact, how dare you accuse me of not being selfish?
I love it. Yeah, because then you don't have a charge on being called selfish. Because anytime you have a charge on something, either people are going to keep showing up and call you selfish or selfish people are going to keep showing up in your life.
Right. And I think that that's actually a really good signal. Like when you're hearing things a lot from people and if it's bothering you, that's the thing to look at. Like that's the thing to claim. That's the thing to take ownership of.
Yeah. And that was finally like, this, had this like short relationship, but I still was like, every time I thought of him, I was like, fuck you fucker. know, like I really like still had that. And finally I was like, okay, what is this? And it was just that he had found me lacking. And so then I finally was like, am I willing to be super lacking with? And then I was like, yeah, I am totally willing to be not good enough for some, like not be what they wanted. Like.
speaker-0 (19:15.628)
And then as soon as I did that, no longer had like all the residual like bitterness just plopped away, know, just vanished.
Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. When we do this work a lot, it's like sometimes we just have to, we don't even realize we're resisting it. Like you were resisting this idea of being considered lacking just kind of automatically. But once you were able to see it and name it and label it, then you had the ability to kind of take it back and claim it and be like, no, no.
Yeah, like who cares? Like, yeah, I was lacking to him. I won't be lacking to someone else. You like I'm not lacking to me. That's really all that matters, right? Is it, do I find myself lacking? And clearly I did if I was so, you know, if I was having such a charge on that. And just radical approval of being lacking. And then suddenly it's like fun again. Life is fun again, you know? Yeah. You're selfish. Like just have selfish. Like you get a whole bowl of selfish. Like.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm curious. So when you started doing existential cake, were you doing it like as a process that you were like sitting down and doing?
speaker-0 (20:24.338)
I am definitely someone who very kinesthetic like I feel in my body. And so it's usually pretty quick for me. Like I can just, I literally can like feel like this is how I picture it. It's like, I guess I already said this, but like there's something that's in my world that I find disgusting or hate, you know, I just can't stand and I'm really upset. And then as soon as I,
Like bring the way, you know, using those words, radical approval, like, are like magic for me. And it was like waving a magic wand. It like, I imagine like pulling it in instead of resisting it. And then, I can just feel it's like feeding me. It feels like, like I get, I light up, I get stronger. I feel like my heart opens if there's a, just a real. So I guess what I'm saying is I can do it pretty fast because I can feel it.
I don't have to do much mental gymnastics usually with it because I do it as like a more of like an energetic process. I think people can get stuck where they're trying to just think too much around it instead of like actually just let it be a felt process, you know?
Cool.
speaker-1 (21:37.614)
Absolutely. And I think that that can actually be dangerous. Like I think that if we're trying to think our way to it, it's really hard to get there. I do think that the more we do it in our bodies, the more we can do it kind of on the fly. And I like what you're saying, just like you're pulling it in, like you really imagine like bringing it into your body. It almost kind of like, I mean, it kind of reminds me of Tonglen, you know, which is a...
Like
speaker-1 (22:04.28)
practice where you breathe in the black smoke and then you transform it into gold in your heart and then you breathe the golden light back out. And it's almost like you're doing that. And I think the more you do the tonglen, it's kind of similarly like it becomes sort of automatic. You just breathe in the black smoke and it's just happening now. It's just that's what your body's doing. It's just turning things into gold.
Right. Like I had this, you know, during the last election, you know, I was not super happy with the, results and my friends were really grieving. Like there was like, people were in tears that day. And then I just got the like hit that was like same thing. Like, okay. I was like, how would you EK this? And I could feel all the celebration on the other side. And I just like pulled it in. was like, I'm having that for like a shiver just doing it now.
was like, just pulling in like that celebration for my ideals, for my, the political platform I would imagine. You know, it's like just pull, just have, just, letting myself have that celebration, even though it wasn't.
For me, you know, like, and so then and I'm not in resistance of the people who are celebrating. And I'm not in resistance of the other side. And then I am like, just have access to all the energies. You know,
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because it's about how it affects us. Like, that's what we can control and that's what we have to live with.
speaker-0 (23:42.328)
Right. And so if you're like,
doom scrolling, you know, and you get it. And I do. mean, there's a lot going on right now where I do get like, I start arguing with invisible mega people in my head. And then I'm like, okay, okay, okay. Radical approval for people have like, this has gone on since humans existed where people choose sides and they dig in heels and there's polarity and. You know, just like radical approval of.
You
speaker-0 (24:15.426)
this human condition of polarity and stirring the pot, stirring things up and drama and you know, and also knowing that, I mean, this is like the frame, like I like to frame it as like, because that can be depressing when you're like, this has always gone on just to be like, this is creating change, like this, this like,
whatever massive thing that's happening right now is going to create some, there's change that like, and like you said, change is inevitable.
Yeah. Yeah, I've been in... Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I've been in a little bit of like concern and noticing. I don't usually get fearful when things are happening in the world. Like I tend to be able to just kind of like keep hold my center with it. But lately I've been like feeling a little bit anxious. Like it's subtle, but it is there. And
change makes us sorry
speaker-1 (25:16.322)
And I do find myself being like, okay, I have to just trust that this is gonna, whatever's happening. It's like a large scale version of a process that I've been through with myself more times than I can count of like the friction and the tension is what initiates change.
change.
which I tried to remind myself even just like the George Floyd, you know, murder brought a lot of change in our systems, you know? So this, was very upsetting at the time and people, know, things were on fire and then change was created. So like same thing, like there's.
speaker-0 (26:02.478)
And I do hate to say everything happens for a reason, but.
speaker-0 (26:08.994)
I mean, souls choose what they choose, right?
Yeah, I'm not gonna not gonna argue with that.
Yeah. Yeah, I think that, I mean, I kind of my, my philosophical theory is like, everything is just sort of exactly as it has to be. Like existence actually, like, is what it, I don't know, like, it's just, it's a, everything is so connected, everything is perfectly connected. And, and so, like, what I tell myself is like, trust the storyteller.
Yeah, wow.
speaker-1 (26:51.382)
Yeah, that's a phrase. Well, myself, God, whatever, higher, just reality, the universe, just the story, just trust the storyteller.
Right, I love that. Yeah, because like when we're reading a romance novel, even though they're having such a hard time, we know they're getting together in the end as a reader. Yeah. So if we're trusting the storyteller, they're not going to betray us. Like there's going to be a satisfying solution in the end somehow, you know, like it is.
Yeah. I mean, I guess, which is, guess what faith is. Right. But I'm sort of like, okay, but there's so much suffering. And like, just, I have to have my own sort of version of faith that there's something.
Yeah, I don't know, that there is a rhyme to it.
Yeah, I struggled when I was reading the A Thousand Names for Joy by Byron Katie as part of our EK coaching. The part I struggled, I resisted most was when her daughter was in labor and they, was it her daughter? And they thought maybe the baby, she and the baby were in trouble, like there was trouble and the
speaker-0 (28:11.534)
her son-in-law's mom was like, let's pray. And she was like, well, if it's, she's meant to live, she's meant to live. I really, was like, what the, you you are nuts, man. Like that's not okay. Like, I really had a hard time with her acceptance of like, if her daughter was supposed to die, she was supposed to die. Cause I was like, well, we also have free will and we can make a request. I guess like the manifestor in me is still like, like, I'm not going to just lie down and take it. Like I'm going to be like,
I want my daughter and grandbaby to live. And then if it doesn't happen, go, you know, damn God, but, but I guess I'm a little, there was like so little, will imposed in her radical acceptance of everything that, I still like, I'm still
Right.
speaker-0 (29:05.356)
mulling over all of that. and that book has like aged well in my brain. it's like more and more I can see all the wisdom and more and more I appreciate everything she had to say. And I, and I find myself thinking the things she says, like, don't resist what is, you know, like, but, but I guess like, like I do question like what, how much, and I like, how much do we mean? Like, and this is okay.
I was walking the other day and it lifted my face up to the sun and I said, you know, I'd like to receive, I don't know, I said like the countenance of God on my face. don't know, whatever it was, like I was asking for like a blessing from the sun and then they were like, you are God. And I was like, oh, so again, it just comes back to like that relationship with yourself. Like what is, what am I going to allow myself to have?
Yeah.
I just talked myself in a circle that I don't know if I went anywhere.
Well, Byron Katie is, she's like fully enlightened. She's in an altered state of consciousness where she is like, I call it Buddhist enlightenment. Like she's like enlightened as Buddhas were enlightened. And so her stance on everything is very extreme, of course, but it is like the truest truth from that perspective because she doesn't filter it at all because she's fully there and she's fully unattached.
speaker-0 (30:08.237)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (30:34.33)
And, but for me personally, like that's not what I'm seeking in my life. I love, I love the wisdom. I'm a huge fan of Byron Katie. Obviously that's why we read that book and that program. But because I think it's important to see and hold what that is and you can really feel it. She transmits it and you can, I mean, I can, I can really feel it, how she transmits it. But I think that for me,
Like I don't want to be that enlightened. Right. Because I actually, feel like I'm here to enjoy life like as a human. Like I don't want to, I see that as kind of, and I don't think she was seeking that actually. I think she, you know, it happened to her. For me, it's like, I'm not seeking to transcend my humanity. And I think it's very human raw to like want my kid to survive, you know?
Yeah.
And so I can see that like that's the highest sort of spiritual attainment would be to be able to like let go of that. But that's not where I'm trying to go personally. But I do think, and this is why I love Existential King so much, I think it actually brings us to a happy medium where we are sort of seeking to pull on the strings of, you know, creating and doing things and trying to kind of manipulate.
reality into our little desire to our will. And also doing it with total radical approval. think there's just such a wonderful middle ground of not arguing with reality, like Byron Katie says, but also being true to our sort of like human animalistic urges.
speaker-0 (32:16.814)
desires. Yeah, like make a request, you know, like that's it. yeah, that's what I think. And that's where I was like, I think that's where I was going with like that I am the God. It's like, I do have like, I have a free will, it's my choice, like I can choose to have a beautiful life, or I could make, you know, just focus on and make myself a victim and make it really miserable.
Exactly.
speaker-1 (32:39.905)
Exactly.
It's all whatever gets me off, Whatever my kink is.
Yeah. Yeah. so going back to I'm just, keep thinking of you like doing EK as this sort of way of like pulling these sensations in and, and I guess I'm curious now, like when you're
Like when things come up.
Do you feel like you automatically come to this sort of like EK?
speaker-0 (33:24.16)
It's pretty quick, like I noticed myself, I was on the phone.
speaker-0 (33:32.024)
with a friend and felt slighted. And then I'm like, this is my seven-year-old kid's sister who never got listened. My projection was that nobody listens to what I have to say. And so I was having that moment. then I went to the, I should use my Casual Urbaniac skills and express. And then I was like, no, no, this is just you thinking that you're just radically approve. People don't listen to me because it's not even true.
That's just a projection. Like it's just literally not.
So that, and then like, you know, that all happened in a matter of seconds before I had to say something or, you know,
So it happened like on the fly on the phone call, like you felt that sort of ping.
She was still talking. wasn't like second seconds. It was maybe like 30 seconds, but like I got through it and I was like, we're good. It's fine. So yeah, I guess that's the thing is like faster and faster, but we still have our blind spots. know, the things where people are like, you have no idea that you're doing something until someone says like, why do you get so competitive playing games? And I'm like, I'm not competitive.
speaker-1 (34:45.922)
What?
I guess my kid sisterness is still trying to prove I'm good at something. You know. The game. I don't know. fussy about it.
speaker-0 (35:03.86)
yeah, but then, you know, I think
There's the bigger things that happen that take longer. I mean, you know, things like my car got totaled and I was just like, cool. know, like meant to be. I didn't want to drive a Tesla anymore because Elon Musk is an asshole. know, the universe spoke. I was like, I'm not going to argue with reality.
You
speaker-1 (35:33.582)
So where so tell me where you're where are you going?
Like what's next for you?
I am...
pulling in like books on screen, whether that's TV or film. And also like, because I'm indie published, so like a trad deal, because that would get books into like airports or bookstores, know, sort of want those little check those boxes off. Although, you know, it's like, the more I feel okay, like I recognize that I am enough.
an author the less I need that. I had my first Barnes and Noble book signing because a friend invited me to hers and I was like...
speaker-0 (36:22.882)
big deal. Like, why did you need that to feel? that was on my box of like, I'm a real author when and then I was like, you didn't, you don't need that. You're good. You're, you're a real author. You can have, can have it right now before you have a book in the airport, before you have a book on screen, you can just have it right now. Like it's, so I guess in a way like the, all of like where I'm going feels less compelling because it's not being driven from lack anymore.
It's not from like, have to prove something or I'm not good enough or because I'm like, I'm into that kink and it's had the flavor of it. Let myself have that already.
Yeah. And so you're just still writing. You're right. You're just pumping out books.
Yeah, and I am still in love with storytelling. Like I do still get captivated by a story and want to tell it. I do still have more stories in my head than I feel like I have time to write, which is maybe why I want to get my word counts up. But I would also like to like take a screenwriting course and see about adapting myself, like adapting my own work over. And...
And then I would, I think I would like to do the relaxed to riches book, which was like my, was like the next step from right to riches. And then relaxed to riches was like more of like shadow work. I think I'd like to make that into a course and. And just become more, I think like what I, cause I had set up like I have a separate right to riches, Instagram, and then I have a Renee Rose for the, the romance. I think what I'd like this, like, like it's all me and I'd like it to become more integrated as all me, you know, so that the existential kink.
speaker-0 (38:07.15)
coach is also can be the same as the romance author. And if that makes sense, like not having these different personas that I put out to the world, which is different from like the mom, you know, the neighbor and the like have it all like, because I and I used to just always either hide that I was a romance author or I would like, you know, go like make fun of myself a little bit like, I write some, you know, like, haha. And so then to just be like, yeah, I'm a fucking
badass, like just own it with everybody. Like, yeah, that's an author. I've been writing some up for 10 years now. And it's not smut. Like, I mean, it is, but like, it's not, you know, like, it's got a story. think people, because of the way I talked about it, people made an assumption that it was just like erotica. Like it had no plot. had no, and I was like, I have plots, you know, but I was doing that was again, that was me, like, putting out, like, I was afraid of being judged for that. So then I would put it out and then then people would judge me that way.
I attracted all that, you know.
Yeah. Yeah. So you're talking about sort of bringing together like you as a coach, helping authors and you as a writer, writing, having written so many books. I'm just blown away by how many books you've written. And then, and also maybe bringing some of your books to television or. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. That's the, and, I'm also calling a man into like a partner. which I think I, what, you know, I wasn't ready until it, like until I had addressed my existential kink, I was going to keep attracting a partner who treated me less than.
speaker-1 (39:56.43)
Mm-hmm.
because that was the kink I was playing out. And so I'm so grateful now that I've processed that and had the fun of it. because they, you know, there is fun. there's like a genuine sexual kink with me with that. And also I would like someone who respects me and listens to me and doesn't cheat on me and all of those things, you know.
Yeah, definitely. It's amazing.
Yeah. I think I'm ready for that. Like, don't know. I think before I wouldn't have been attracted to that.
Right, right, like you couldn't even got an into somebody who
speaker-0 (40:37.047)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'd be like, he's boring or, you know, whatever. He's boring. doesn't want to choke me and tell me I'm nothing, you know?
So yeah.
Right. And I do feel like you can have that in the bedroom, but not have it in the relationship.
I do too. And I think I've said those words all along that I wanted that, like I wanted it to just be in the bedroom, but I was still playing it out in all of my life. So it wasn't staying in the bedroom.
Right. Amazing. So is there any like, are there any last hits of wisdom or insight that you want to share?
speaker-0 (41:18.65)
I, I just am like really musing on this idea of like, are you willing to love yourself enough to let yourself have whatever it is, the thing you desire, just knowing that it is truly you. You are the only one stopping you and you are the one with all the power to make it happen.
Mm-hmm.
Which is just a different way of saying, like you said, like, take responsibility for everything. But it's like, I don't know, that hit me for some, like, I'm like, really, I think if we just play with that, like, for every, every request we make, I'm like, am I willing to love myself enough to let me let myself have that?
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and love yourself meaning not just like concretely, like letting yourself feel your pain that you're feeling, letting yourself feel the truth of all of the things that are happening and like honoring your own truth and honoring your own like boundaries and resistances and acknowledging your own pain and not as everything.
like that's not the only thing is also acknowledging your joy and honoring your joy and all of that, but just like not hiding from your truth, I feel like.
speaker-0 (42:38.176)
Yeah. And hiding from, like you said, the pain and the great, like, I came to that realization about that. was afraid of feeling bad, like when my daughter left for college, because I thought, I'll miss her for a few days. I don't know what I was thinking, but it was not a few days. Like it's, it was months and I was sad. And, and for a while I was telling myself it wasn't okay to be sad until I realized like,
nothing terrible. Like I really, there was a nervous system thing that told me something terrible would happen if I was sad for too many days in a row kind of thing. Like that I would clinically depressed for the rest of my life or whatever, I'd be mentally ill or whatever it was. had a, there was a real genuine like fear there to being sad, to feeling grief, you know? And then just allowing myself to have it, of course, like now I'm
Right.
speaker-0 (43:35.458)
I'm okay with her being away at college, and you know. And of course, and even at the time, like I wasn't arguing with reality, like I wanted her to be at college, but I was arguing with the way I felt.
Right, which is its own reality.
Right, true. True. yeah, so it's like just that radical approval of, and we do grieve all the little changes. Like I don't like when a different teacher shows up to my Pilates class. You know, all these micro resistances in our life to change. I guess then I'd be Byron Katie level if I didn't do that, but yeah.
But yeah, but and then it brings you to back to the positivity again, like that's where you then you bounce like yeah, this is me You know having resistance to change cool
speaker-1 (44:33.356)
Yeah, and so where can people find you?
So if they want to read some kinky romance, reneerosromance.com, if they're an author who wants to join a group of abundance authors, I've got a Facebook group called Author Abundance Central, I think, and there's also a website called Write to Riches that's right with a W and then a numeral two, writetoriches.com.
put the link in the description.
speaker-1 (45:06.958)
Amazing. Thank you so much. This was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Penetrate Radio. I have a free guided existential kink practice. If you are somebody who is new to this work, if you're new to EK, if you haven't read the book, if you're just not a reader, or if you need a refresher, you can get this. You can download it right now for free and use it to learn how to do EK and just follow along as a guided practice. It is meant for beginners.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
speaker-1 (45:36.864)
So I just want to let you know that that's available and you can find it at the link in the description. Also in the link in the description, you can find more information about our membership Dominion, a field of radical approval. Dominion is less than the cost of a single manicure each month and it's just a wonderful place to do this work in community. We have seen time and time again that being witnessed and witnessing others in this work is wildly helpful and validating.
The last thing I want to mention is that a lot of our guests talk about the coach certification program penetrate that they went through with myself and Layla. I want to let you know that we are going to be offering that same program again in 2027. And you can find a waitlist in that same link if you're interested in getting information about that when it becomes available. And I think this goes without saying, but if you see anyone else offering a program called penetrate,
that is also a coach certification program related to this kind of work. That is absolutely not the same program that Leila and I have taught and that the people in this podcast are talking about when they talk about our coach certification program penetrate. So I just wanted to make that super clear. Leila and I share a lot of hard, one wisdom through that program. So if we're not the ones teaching it and offering it, then it is definitely not the same program.
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Penetrate Radio and I will see you in the next one. Ciao.
New to Lucy’s work?
Start with Lucy Baldwin’s complete overview of Shadow Alchemy here:
Lucy Baldwin’s Shadow Alchemy Hub
Penetrate Radio explores shadow work, desire, magic, embodiment, self-honesty, radical approval, Existential Kink, and the hidden patterns that shape our lives from underneath.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is kinesthetic Existential Kink?
Kinesthetic Existential Kink is an embodied way of practicing radical approval. Instead of trying to understand the pattern mentally, you feel the resistance, charge, or unwanted experience in the body and allow it to become energy rather than something you push away.
How does Existential Kink help with money mindset?
Existential Kink helps reveal the hidden charge, identity, pleasure, shame, or attachment inside money patterns. This can make it easier to shift from lack, resistance, and struggle into more power, agency, and receptivity.
Is radical approval the same as toxic positivity?
No. Toxic positivity tries to force a positive meaning onto painful experiences. Radical approval allows what is already here to be felt directly, including anger, sadness, resistance, disgust, grief, and hidden pleasure.
Why is embodiment important in shadow work?
Embodiment matters because shadow patterns live as sensation, contraction, charge, and emotion in the body. Intellectual understanding can help, but transformation often requires feeling the pattern physically.
What does it mean to let yourself have what you desire?
Letting yourself have what you desire means becoming willing to receive the thing you want without using fear, identity, shame, or resistance to keep it away. It includes honoring your pain and boundaries while also allowing joy, success, love, money, and creative fulfillment.
Next Steps
If this episode resonated with you, the next step is DOMINION: A Field of Radical Approval.
DOMINION is Lucy Baldwin’s space for practicing radical approval, shadow integration, desire work, and the deeper transformation at the heart of Shadow Alchemy.