Existential Kink in the Wild With Bob | Penetrate Radio, Episode 9
In Episode 9 of Penetrate Radio, Lucy Baldwin and Dani Granaroli speak with Robert “Bob” Greel about what happens when Existential Kink leaves the formal coaching container and becomes a living practice among friends, partners, creative communities, and everyday relationships.
Bob is not a certified Existential Kink coach. He has not been through Lucy’s programs. He is a person who read Carolyn Elliott’s Existential Kink, felt the work land deeply, gave the book to more than a dozen people, and began using its language and practices in his own life.
That makes this conversation especially valuable. It is not about Existential Kink as a professional modality. It is about Existential Kink in the wild: at fires in Vermont, in friendships, in money fears, in body image, in conflict, in community, and in the quiet moments when you realize you do not have to fight yourself so hard anymore.
Watch or listen to Episode 9 of Penetrate Radio here:
Key Takeaways
In this episode, Lucy, Dani, and Bob explore:
what happens when Existential Kink spreads organically through friendship
Bob’s first encounter with EK through Dani
why he gave the book to more than a dozen people
how the Deepest Fear Inventory shifted his relationship with money
the body sensations of anxiety, excitement, warmth, and release
how inquiry can knock down the walls of limiting thought patterns
why EK helped Bob create a kinder relationship with the universe
body image, nudity, hair loss, and accepting the body as it is
conflict as a pathway to intimacy rather than something to avoid
the shadow of wanting to be “the good communicator”
brooding, brattiness, and wanting to be seen
how boundaries can preserve relationships instead of destroying them
why telling the truth is often kinder than trying to be liked
Existential Kink Outside the Coaching Container
A lot of conversations about Existential Kink happen inside formal containers: courses, coaching programs, communities, and facilitated practices. Those spaces are powerful, but they are not the only places this work lives.
In this episode, Bob offers a picture of what it looks like when the work spreads through everyday relationship. Dani introduced him to the book around a fire in Vermont. He read it, recognized something true, and began sharing it with people he thought might resonate with it.
This is shadow work as living conversation. A friend gives you a book. You read it. You start talking differently about your repeating patterns, your money fears, your relationships, your body, your conflict habits, and your own hidden motivations. Slowly, the language changes the way the group can hold each other.
That is Existential Kink in the wild.
Waving the Good News Flag
Bob jokes that he “waved the good news flag” after reading Existential Kink. Dani confirms that if anyone was out there with a trumpet sharing the good news, it was Bob.
He estimates that he gave the book to somewhere in the teens, which is notable because he was not previously a big book-gifting person. The work landed strongly enough that he wanted to share it with friends, especially people who were already open to self-inquiry, vulnerability, and shadow.
This matters because some books are merely interesting, and others become a shared language. For Bob and his community, Existential Kink became a way to talk about the subconscious, repeating patterns, hidden wants, self-examination, and the possibility that the parts of us we keep pushing away may be trying to give us something.
The Body Sensation of an EK Turn-On
When Lucy asks Bob about his first major Existential Kink turn-on moment, he describes the bodily experience first.
For him, the sensation often feels like warmth or tingling. It can appear in moments of activity, flow, anxiety, excitement, fear, or intensity. Rather than neatly separating these states into different categories, he notices that they may share similar somatic signatures.
That is already a very EK way of seeing. The body may not distinguish as cleanly as the mind does between anxiety, excitement, fear, and arousal. There may be one field of charge, and the story we attach to it changes how we experience it.
Bob’s work began with allowing those sensations to exist, scanning the body, holding space for the charge, and recognizing parts of himself he had previously refused to identify with.
“If They Are Good, I Must Be Bad”
One early pattern Bob describes involved a painful relational story: if something went badly, and the other person was good, then he must be the bad one.
This is such a common binary. In conflict, breakup, disappointment, or relational rupture, the mind often wants to decide who is good and who is bad. If the other person cannot be made into the villain, then the self becomes the villain.
Existential Kink helped Bob release some of that structure. Through therapy, meditation, body scanning, and conversation, he began to take in the full shadow of the experience. He could feel the part that said, “I cannot be that person,” and gradually include it.
The result was not a perfect conceptual answer. It was release. Over time, he did not feel the same way anymore. His relationship with himself, the people around him, and the world became easier.
A Kinder Relationship With the Universe
Bob describes one of the major shifts from this work as a gentler, kinder, warmer relationship with the universe.
That is a beautiful phrase because it captures something that can be hard to explain from the outside. Existential Kink does not necessarily make every day easy. It does not prevent conflict, fear, grief, or frustration. But it can create more space inside experience.
Instead of being bent out of shape by everything, Bob describes having a bigger capacity. Life feels less like an adversary and more like something he can relate to, listen to, and allow in.
This is one of the gifts of radical approval. When you stop fighting reality so relentlessly, the universe can begin to feel less hostile. There is more room for play, synchronicity, curiosity, and cooperation.
The Deepest Fear Inventory
One of Bob’s biggest aha moments came through the Deepest Fear Inventory from Existential Kink.
He used it around money, specifically the fear that he did not make enough. The practice asks you to follow the fear all the way down: then what? And then what? And then what?
Bob’s chain went from not making enough money to not being enough, then to friends leaving him, then to having nowhere to live, then to having nothing and nobody. When he kept following the thread, he reached an almost absurdly practical endpoint: if he had nothing, he would try to find work and make money again.
That may sound obvious, but obvious truths are not always emotionally available when fear has built layer upon layer around them. The inventory helped collapse some of the maze.
Inquiry Knocks Down Thought Walls
Lucy describes inquiry as a way of knocking down the walls of the little mental mazes we create for ourselves.
We often have unconscious beliefs about money, relationships, body image, conflict, success, or worth that silently limit the range of thoughts we are allowed to have. We do not even realize we are inside a thought cube until inquiry breaks open the walls.
For Bob, the money fear had become a world with no exit. There was no other side where he was not constantly worried about money. But when he followed the fear, felt the body, burned the paper, and let the inquiry work through him, a new relationship became possible.
The money itself did not instantly become irrelevant, but it stopped being the central god of the psyche. It became one part of life, not the whole prison.
Letting the Universe In
Bob names a theme from the last several years of his life: letting the universe in.
That requires open ears, open arms, and curiosity. It means allowing the world to play with you a little more. It means noticing opportunities, timing, friendships, work, and serendipity instead of staying locked inside the belief that nothing else is possible.
This is not passive magical thinking. It is a shift in posture. When the mind and body are less contracted around fear, the person can perceive more possibilities. They can say yes more easily. They can notice the door that was there but previously invisible.
In that sense, shadow work does not only remove pain. It can also expand perception.
Sharing EK in a Real Community
Lucy asks Bob about the community where he was sharing this work. He describes a close friend group with a long history of creative collaboration, vulnerability, music, events, relationship struggles, and mutual care.
Dani adds that this group formed partly through college and a band Bob was in. Over the years, they created artistic, music-centered gatherings for one another, not because everything was always easy, but because they had the depth to have hard conversations.
This is important. Existential Kink spreads best in spaces where people have already built some trust. If a group has seen each other cry, fail, break up, dance, create, and show up in ugly moments, then shadow work has somewhere to land.
The book did not create intimacy from nothing. It gave language to a field that already had vulnerability in it.
Good Vibes Are Not Enough
Bob jokes about people saying, “Just good vibes,” and how Existential Kink offers a very different invitation.
Good vibes can be lovely, but they are not enough for deep work. If a group can only talk about the positive, it cannot hold the full truth of human life. The bad vibes, the yucky feelings, the resentment, the body shame, the neediness, the conflict, and the secret enjoyment all get pushed underground.
Existential Kink says the bad vibes are worth touching too. They may even be fun, sexy, interesting, or expansive once we stop treating them as contaminating forces.
This does not mean glorifying negativity. It means refusing to amputate half of reality in order to seem spiritual, pleasant, or easy.
Body Image, Nudity, and Accepting the Body
One of Bob’s shadow areas involved body image.
He reflects on the enormous cultural pressure around how bodies should look: face, hair, genitals, breasts, butt, size, shape, and every other visible marker. Even as a man, he felt that pressure. A part of him believed that if his body looked different, life would be different.
At some point, after intense relational experiences and a desire to be done with the struggle, he found himself at a clothing-optional hot spring. Being there among other naked bodies gave him a direct experience of something simple and liberating: this is just how bodies are.
That experience helped him relate differently to his own body, including hair loss. The part of him that had been resisting his body was trying to protect him from ridicule, rejection, and not belonging. When he could see that, the part softened. It was not his enemy. It wanted him to be proud, connected, and not alone.
The Shadow of Being the Good Communicator
Bob also shares a pattern around conflict and communication.
He loves nonviolent communication. He values naming the action, sharing the feeling, and making a request. He genuinely wants to be the person who does conflict resolution well.
But, of course, shadow appears exactly where the identity is most cherished.
Sometimes a part of him gets sick of being the good communicator. A part wants to yell. A part wants to be the bad person. A part gets tired of doing all the emotional labor and wishes other people would just do what they said they would do.
When he finally allowed himself to be “the bad boy,” the tension released. Then he could have the conversation cleanly.
This is classic shadow work. The moment the forbidden identity is allowed, it stops running the whole system from exile.
Brooding, Brattiness, and Wanting to Be Seen
Bob describes his brooding pattern with remarkable self-awareness. When something is bothering him, he can become quiet, avoid eye contact, and retreat into a kind of bratty shell. His partner can see that something is happening, and part of him knows she can see it.
Lucy and Dani reflect that brooding men can even be an attractive archetype, which adds a fun twist. Bob says the bratty part is not exactly the brooding itself, but the refusal to make eye contact. That is the tell. That is how he knows he is not fully in his body and not yet ready to let the truth flow.
The deeper desire underneath the brooding is to be seen. He wants recognition. He wants someone to notice. He wants to be understood before he has figured out how to speak.
Once he can identify that, the pattern becomes less mysterious.
Conflict as an Intimacy Orgasm
Lucy offers one of the central reframes of the episode: conflict can be a pathway to intimacy.
For her, conflict is not something to avoid. It is often where the gold in a relationship is found. A disagreement creates tension, then a peak, then a descent into resolution, intimacy, and greater trust. Dani names this as reframing conflict as an intimacy orgasm.
This does not mean all conflict is healthy or safe. It means that in relationships with enough willingness, honesty, and capacity, conflict can deepen connection rather than destroy it.
Bob agrees that conflict can be a test of a relationship. Anyone can get along while everything is easy. The deeper question is: what happens when disagreement arrives? Can both people stay present enough to work through it?
Doing It Right Can Make You an Asshole
Lucy points out a subtle trap. Sometimes when people are committed to doing conflict “the right way,” they become superior, controlling, and secretly angry.
They come in with the correct language, the correct framework, the correct conflict-resolution posture, and the correct emotional maturity, but their energy is full of resentment. Underneath the polished sentences is the message: I am doing this correctly, and you are not.
That is why simply having the right tools is not enough. If the shadow is running underneath, the tools can become weapons of superiority.
When the need to do it perfectly is released, a third way becomes possible. You can show up authentically, speak truth, and let the other person be a real person rather than a problem you must manage perfectly.
Boundaries Without Cutting People Off
Lucy asks whether doing this work caused Bob to shed relationships.
He says not exactly. Instead, he became better at knowing what he was willing to give. He could say, “I have 40 minutes,” and then be fully present for those 40 minutes. He could give from truth rather than taking on too much without consent.
That is a beautiful distinction. Boundaries do not always mean ending relationships. Sometimes boundaries make relationships more sustainable because you stop secretly resenting what you are giving.
Dani adds that some relationships do fall away because the dynamic changes. When you stop feeding an old pattern, the other person may no longer get what they unconsciously wanted from the relationship. If no new way of relating emerges, the relationship may naturally loosen or end.
Shedding the Need to Be Liked
Lucy brings the conversation to one of the deeper fruits of this work: shedding the need to be liked, approved of, and validated by others.
As shadow work deepens, you become more able to validate yourself. That changes relationships. You no longer need the same dynamics to prove you are good, needed, generous, attractive, helpful, or right.
This can also make certain old patterns feel gross. Lucy describes the discomfort of being the person who constantly validates someone else when it does not feel honest. At some point, the performance of kindness begins to feel like lying.
That is a powerful shadow work insight. Sometimes what we call kindness is actually an attempt to secure approval. Real kindness may require more truth.
Telling the Truth Is the Kinder Thing
The episode closes around the idea that we often lie to make other people feel good, then tell ourselves we are doing it for them.
But often, we are doing it for ourselves. We want to be liked. We want to be seen as good. We want to avoid conflict. We want the other person to validate us back.
Bob names the importance of checking the body and asking whether the statement passes the truth test. Is this a full-body yes? Is this actually true? Are we doing this for them, or are we doing it so they will see us a certain way?
This is where Existential Kink becomes extremely practical. It is not only about meditations or dramatic breakthroughs. It is about the moment before you lie. The moment before you brood. The moment before you rescue. The moment before you pretend. It asks whether you can tell the truth and let reality respond.
The Real Gift of Existential Kink in the Wild
The real gift of this episode is seeing how Existential Kink functions when it is woven into life.
It helps Bob talk to friends. It helps him relate to money with less terror. It helps him accept his body. It helps him recognize brooding as a desire to be seen. It helps him allow the “bad boy” part so he can have cleaner conflict. It helps him set boundaries without needing to cut everyone off.
This is not abstract spirituality. It is a way of living with more honesty, capacity, play, and self-contact.
Existential Kink in the wild is what happens when the book leaves the shelf and becomes a shared language for becoming more real.
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Lucy Baldwin (00:02.283)
Hello and welcome to another episode of Penetrate Radio. I'm Lucy Baldwin and today I'm here with Dani Granaroli, a regular here and a major member of our Dominion community and holder, I should really say, of our Dominion community and this podcast, and Robert Greel. Robert is here as, we actually were really excited to have Robert. So Robert is a friend of Dani's and Robert has been into existential kink for a while now.
read the book, shared it with a lot of friends, has built what I understand like a little bit of community around it, just people that you're engaging with this sort of material around, but is not formally trained or been through any of my programs. So we thought it would be really interesting to talk to Robert and get his perspective and hear about his story. And I would love it if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself.
robertgreel (00:58.049)
Surely. Thanks to Lucy and Danny for having me. I am in Jamaica Plain over in Massachusetts. I work with an architect during the day. kind of DJ parties and weddings and things of that nature in the evenings. And I'm a part of some of community organizing here in town. And then I also spend some time in Vermont with my partner.
very close to where Danny is up there at our little tiny house.
Dani (01:32.052)
you
So Bob, I'm so happy you're here. And I just want to hear, I don't know, I know that I've heard this story a few times, but I would love for just, just like, can you start from the beginning? Tell us like how EK came to you.
robertgreel (01:54.415)
Well, it was you, which was great. And I remember standing around a quintessential fire outside in the colds in Vermont. And we were catching up maybe like five years ago, four years ago. And we said, what are you up to, Danny? And you're like, oh, you know, it's nothing. It's whatever. I don't really talk about it too much. And I was like, great. I would love to hear more.
You said, know, I'm existential kink and this book, this author, and you shared that with me and you described it as shadow work. And then I was very interested. I got the book, I read it and I I think it, it paralleled with, going to therapy at the time, listening to
other podcasts about different kind of working on yourself and or like polyamory and open relationships and, a lot of like the, the good feelings that come and the, are these other feelings and what are we doing with these other feelings that we have feelings about or meaning about. and then I like really waved the good news flag.
I do it like Allah. I sure did.
Dani (03:20.93)
Yes, you did. have to say. So, Leila in one of the podcasts had said something like, you know, I'm so excited to share the good news of this. And when I think of people who are like out there with their trumpets sharing the good news, Bob, you are one of those people. Now, I feel like you told me at one point, but like, do you have a number of how many people you've given that book to?
robertgreel (03:46.646)
Yeah, it's somewhere in the teens, I think. I've I never gifted books before and I'm not a huge reader. But boy, when I got into this territory of shadow work, I was really pumped about it. And with some understanding that not every nail needs the same hammer, but I
definitely handed out like 15 of those hammers. And I think to people that would resonate with it, and and mostly all did, and it's been a great foundation of communicating with friends. It's been fantastic with my partner Laura and I, and continues to be a really important lens.
Lucy Baldwin (04:20.018)
you
robertgreel (04:45.003)
I think in viewing myself and my own experience and and to some degree kind of like looking around me and seeing like, why this person that? And it's like, well, maybe they're wanting to do this and they feel bad about it and that's why it's happening all the time. So it's been a lot of fun to share to folks that I think are interested in that reflection of the
Dani (05:01.762)
Mm.
robertgreel (05:14.315)
themselves and their shadow.
Dani (05:16.652)
Yeah, that's awesome.
Lucy Baldwin (05:18.432)
I have a question. I'm always curious. you had like, well, I so many questions, but I guess my first question is, what was your first big EK turn on moment? Like, what did that feel like for you?
Dani (05:21.603)
beautiful.
robertgreel (05:33.389)
So when I was reading through existential kink and doing some of the meditations, the physical body experience that I have often is this warming effect. would equate it to like, feels like sometimes when I feel like I'm amongst
a lot of activity, maybe there's an event going on and a lot of things are happening and we're kind of in, we're in the flow of like the run of show. Um, sometimes that feels like anxious. Sometimes that feels a little tingly. Sometimes that feels very exciting. I met sometimes it's a little scared and all of those, think generally tend to be the same, maybe the same body sensation. Um,
that then I'm carrying this warmth, this tingling. When was maybe the first time? think, you I had chatted with you, Danny, a couple of times about a couple different things over, I think over that year or two when I read the book. And I was going through a journey with some friends, past partnership, and...
There was a time where I was locked in this idea of.
Like, oh, this thing went bad. and I'm, but they're a good person. So I must be the bad person.
Dani (07:14.87)
Mmm.
robertgreel (07:16.26)
And, you know, that went on for a long, that went on for, for a time. And between the therapy and reading EK and chatting with you, Danny, there was a, there was a time, like it, it wasn't maybe one specific moment, but I think it was, it was a period of time where some of those meditations, scanning the body, feeling
and holding space for that body feeling, acknowledging these different kind of meanings and that there was a release. There was some release that came from like taking in that full embodiment, taking in that full, I'll say shadow, right? That other part of me that was like, no, no, I can't. I cannot be that person.
Dani (07:56.195)
Mm.
robertgreel (08:13.418)
or that would be terrible to feel. And over this period of time, it was a beautiful journey. It took some work and I don't feel like that anymore, which is nice for me and for those around me.
Dani (08:25.494)
I'm sorry.
Dani (08:30.424)
Yeah, I'm curious. can you, if you, if you're open to it, share like what shifted in your life from having that internal shift.
robertgreel (08:43.976)
Yeah, I would say my relationship with the universe got easier. I made a lot more room for the universe to come and play and things became gentler, kinder, warmer. And it's not like every day is easy, you know, and every day is smooth, like we all know. But I will say like the trend, that was a tough period.
Dani (09:07.608)
Mm-hmm.
robertgreel (09:15.082)
And, you know, generally I'm grateful for the experience and that's why I'm here now. And things are my relationship with the world and those around me have an ease and a beauty, space, a bigger space, a bigger capacity. And I don't get all bent out of shape all the time like I used to.
Dani (09:37.582)
That's awesome.
Dani (09:46.166)
Lucy, there more of those many questions here?
Lucy Baldwin (09:47.85)
Well, that was kind of my next question. But there's so much more.
Lucy Baldwin (09:58.259)
Yeah. go ahead.
Dani (09:59.343)
Can you reflect on any moments of the, I mean, if you can go back to the first time I read it, can you reflect on any moments that were like really aha moments? Like, wow, that's so cool. It felt really like, this thing just clicked. This is amazing. And or I want to know challenging moments where you're like, what did that crazy lady just say?
robertgreel (10:27.594)
You know, one thing that really hit for me was that there's a practice in that book called The Deepest Fear Inventory, right? And that's like a classic like, what if, what if, what if I'm paralyzed? And then the practice is, well, let's talk about the what if, and then what, and then what, and then what? And just how bad can it actually be? And sometimes bad, you know, but I think
The what's maybe worse is not touching how bad that is. So I think my practice for that was, and those around me and my past partners, my current partner can attest to like, feel like I don't make enough money and it just has been this thing forever. And the deepest fear inventory was like, was okay. I don't feel like I make enough money. It was like, okay, then what? It's like, well,
I guess then I wouldn't be enough. And then what? It's like, well, then my friends might leave me. And then what? It's like, maybe I run out of a house. You know, I don't have a place to live. And, on and on to, I don't have anything. There's nothing around me. Nobody's around me. Like, okay. And then what? Like, well, I guess I go try to find some work and then I start to make some money. Right. Like, and, and I will say,
Dani (11:52.747)
Ha
robertgreel (11:59.27)
So completing that thought of it seems so obvious, but there were so many layers built up of insecurity and fear and expectation that really took up a lot of mind space at the least. And then more so probably I ended up in times, you know, subconsciously created consciously created where money.
was too much in the front of my mind. And luckily, and I'm grateful for it, that at some points I was very lucky to get the job I have now from serendipity through friends, great timing, right? And some of the other work I've done, the universe has kicked in and has continued to help me. I think about it less and the money
is around and like what I need is around. And it's such a different mindset to have. And I'm like very pumped to be on this side of it, where before it just was paralyzing and it was kind of all over the place and in my head and in my body. And when I did that deepest fear inventory and then shared it with, I think my partner, Laura at the time. and then I burnt that piece of paper and was like, yeah.
Dani (13:05.07)
Mm.
robertgreel (13:28.057)
F that and like, yeah, I can not have any money. And then maybe I will have money and then maybe it doesn't like, that's not the most important thing. And maybe that's not important to me as much anymore. And now maybe I have the agency to like, that's just a thing. That's a part of this life, but it's not the thing that I'm living with, you know, very fortunate to be able to get to say that.
Dani (13:40.846)
Mm.
robertgreel (13:56.765)
you know, and get to have that. And I'm very happy to have had that experience. That was a big aha moment.
Lucy Baldwin (14:06.6)
Yeah, I feel like what you're talking about is really the value of what I call inquiry, which is really just questioning our thoughts because we get into these, we have certain beliefs that we haven't really investigated. We didn't even realize we have them, right? These sort of unconscious beliefs about money or relationships or how we should be in certain situations. And then that sort of creates these artificial boundaries around the thoughts that we're able to have. And so then it's like,
we don't even realize that if we can think outside those boundaries, it's like, oh, of course, if I just like ran out of money, I would just get a different job or make more money. Or like, there's always options, you know, it's not like this is the last money I'll ever make. you know, we just, kind of, yeah, we get sort of trapped in these little thought, I don't know, cubes. I like to think of them as just like little mazes that we create for ourselves.
And inquiry I like to think of is sort of like knocking down those walls, those little maze walls and just sort of opening up the field. And then the shadow work is a necessary part of that, though, like doing the work of feeling the body, like moving the sensation, that's sort of the more EK side of it, right? It's like releasing the charge around it so that you can just kind of relax into...
a different way of being within any given thing. And it sounds like you had major shifts in your financial life through like a combination of those practices.
robertgreel (15:39.183)
Yeah, yeah, I would say so. Both, both the, the body experience of losing that tension, finding a release and then, the universe working with me a little bit more, you know? Yeah.
Lucy Baldwin (15:53.919)
Yeah. Well, opening yourself up to those opportunities that, yeah.
robertgreel (16:00.646)
Yeah, I think that's, that's been a big theme over the last, over the last five, six years of letting the universe in. And what that requires is some open ears, some open arms and like a curiosity. And I really like the, the cubes that you were talking about the thought cubes, these walls that like, of course nothing's on the other side of that. How could I, there's, there's no world over there where I'm not.
souped up thinking about money all the time and worrying about it. then you like inquiry and you ask and you ask and you bring your body along for that ride. Right. And then ideally you can have the body and the mind to meet and, and have, you know, operate as one feel balanced. And I think that kind of radiates from there. then maybe hopefully you're
you're past that wall, right? And there's more green or green space to be in.
Lucy Baldwin (17:06.906)
Mm-hmm, exactly. I'm definitely curious, just going back to, because you shared it with so many people, and I do feel like EK is one of those things where if it's for you, it is like, holy crap. You know, like you're just like, dang, it just lands. You're just like, shit, that is some real shit. And I'm just curious if you have any fun stories that you could share about...
robertgreel (17:08.966)
Mm-hmm.
Lucy Baldwin (17:32.448)
people's reactions to it, people who like really didn't get it or people who really loved it in your your profletizing.
robertgreel (17:40.934)
Yeah, my waving at the good news flag. Yeah.
Lucy Baldwin (17:45.748)
Yeah.
robertgreel (17:49.127)
You know, I will say there was one and a half, they were like, this is a little woo woo for me. I was like, that's fine, that's totally good. And that's great, right? I think through some journeys with one or two friends in particular,
robertgreel (18:13.934)
I would say that they...
You know, we, they were going through some, journeys of their own and we were able to talk about our conscious and our subconscious. they had some repeating patterns that were going on partnerships, relationships, with work and with the, you know, either friends or community and maybe one or two of that.
It was nice to have them like look in the mirror a little bit of like, Hey, this thing that keeps happening. Is there a part of us in parentheses you that, that is, is that wants something and then acts out, right? If this is a repeated thing that's happening over and over, why is it happening? And like what.
Dani (18:58.254)
you
robertgreel (19:14.851)
what part of us is looking for something.
And I would say maybe, maybe not one moment, but over some of their journeys, the vernacular that we talk about our experiences has, has allowed them. think I've watched them. I've watched them do their thing. Not, I'm not involved. I'm here to be a listener. And once in a while, like, Hey, check out this book.
but they've they've done great work themselves.
From the outside, looks like they are more centered with themselves and they have come across pieces of themselves that they pushed away before and they're a little more holding space or holding that piece of them. both of these friends, I'm like super pumped for where they are right now. And it was kind of a shit show like four years ago, which they would say, you know.
Dani (20:22.456)
Yeah.
robertgreel (20:23.287)
So, so I think when, when I gave them the book, when I gave them the book individually, we got to talk about, I got to talk about my, my shadow, right? My subconscious, my ego inquiry, inquiry, inquiry. And it was beautiful and lovely and a gift for them to share that with me there. Same line of inquiry to self-examine and then find that they could push through.
those walls and get to like a better relationship with themselves, with the universe, with the people around them.
Lucy Baldwin (21:01.375)
Yeah, it is so interesting to me because most of the people who I work with, you know, they've discovered me because they already discovered EK. So this is why I'm just so curious. Like, I'm curious about the sort of the community that you were in where you were, like, were you involved with like a spiritual community or a medicine community or like, where did you know these people from?
robertgreel (21:13.85)
Mm-hmm.
robertgreel (21:28.503)
Yeah, when I refer to some of my friends in a lovely group of friends that I'm a part of, know, and Danny, I think you and I have experienced this individually, maybe in like overlapping circles with each other, right? That it's not that we know each other for all of like the good things, but like we know each other when like for all the bad things, right? And we're not there to like pat each other on the back. Well, we are.
but we're also there to like hold each other when things are at their worst. And I think that vulnerability really has created a lot of trust, similar values and knowing that you can rely on each other and bring your full self, right? like a handful of the people that I shared the book with, there are people that
know me have known me for five, 10, 15 to like 20 years and more. And I'm pretty sure they've like seen it all. Like there's nothing else to hide. Like they've seen me crying through relationship breakups. They've seen me through, they've seen me naked for one reason or another, right? It's like there's, there's nothing else left.
Dani (22:53.856)
Hahaha!
robertgreel (22:56.714)
Right. And, and that, that space is where I also felt comfortable enough to be like, Hey, check out this book, you know, and, I'm grateful for those folk like Danny who, who asked the questions who are happy to hold space, to, to, to sit with something that might be uncomfortable at first, knowing that there's, there's some great healing.
opportunity ahead.
Lucy Baldwin (23:30.315)
beautiful.
Dani (23:32.335)
will say the friend group that Bob has that I know of, they, a lot of them came together around college and this amazing band that Bob was part of. So it's just like, I mean, they're pretty dispersed now, but they're this like amazing, creative, like dynamic group of people who, I mean, they,
you know, come together, try to come together once a year and like just for the love of each other, create these like beautiful artistic music centered events for each other and with each other. So there's definitely a lot of depth and yeah, just creativity and fun and play that I see in your community.
robertgreel (24:29.068)
Yeah, we didn't get there because everybody was nice to each other and didn't have the hard to have conversations. Yeah.
Dani (24:36.067)
Yeah.
Lucy Baldwin (24:38.151)
Yeah, that makes sense. I was just curious because I've been part of like medicine communities where, you know, the people involved in those communities are already really in touch with like doing spiritual work. And so it's like a really good fit to introduce stuff like this within those communities. And also I find that a lot of those communities, at least back when I was involved, like really need this kind of work because it's really like...
that bringing in the shadow element, was a lot of like love and light stuff going on in those communities. At least at that time, I think things have changed. I think people are way more just like, I feel like we, our generation is so spiritually and like psychologically evolved. I don't know if you guys feel that way, but I just feel like people that I talk to like are, really in tune, really self-aware.
Dani (25:14.414)
Thank
Lucy Baldwin (25:26.817)
And seeking to better ourselves. But maybe I just live in a bubble, I'm not sure. But that's just what I see a lot of. Yeah, which isn't to say that people don't have repeating patterns that we're dealing with and not always seeing. But there is some thought towards trying to resolve that for ourselves.
robertgreel (25:34.147)
That's what my...
Dani (25:49.263)
Yeah, I'd say I feel like there's more space and more interest in addressing those things. know, it's, friend was talking about their kid wanting to see a therapist and I mean, their kids in their mid twenties. And I'm like, yeah, cool. Like how normalized that is. And I feel like our generation was kind of the, the generation that started. We were the cusp of that. Like, let's talk about our feelings. Let's.
Let's engage with this inner world. Let's do the work, yeah, on a larger scale, I think, societally.
Lucy Baldwin (26:24.385)
Exactly.
robertgreel (26:29.059)
Yeah, that's the hope that the trend line is up. And I'll say my bubble feels like that. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's enough knowledge share these days with our generations experience got to experience the, oh, the whole world's like, all roommates now.
Dani (26:37.28)
Yeah, mine too.
robertgreel (26:59.338)
Like there's no physical divide. So the sharing of knowledge is like rapidly increasing in speed. And we get to hear about so many places and get to find things that are interesting to us and. Empathize and find others that have had our experiences, especially the tough experiences and that like, I'm vulnerable, you're vulnerable. And we have these things and now we can hold each other. And if you checked out this.
spiritual practice and have you read this book about the subconscious? And so it's nice that it's out there. It's not everywhere, but I think the trend line is up.
Dani (27:40.846)
Yeah, and that's a good point, Bob. I mean, there's so much more accessibility nowadays to all of this sort of content.
Lucy Baldwin (27:49.622)
Yeah. Well, Bob, I would love to dive back into you a little bit more and ask you some penetrating questions if that's okay. well, I'm just curious, you know, a big piece of this is like claiming our shadows. And I'd be curious to hear about some of the parts of yourself that you explored, discovered, were maybe confronted by as you...
robertgreel (27:59.808)
Go on.
Lucy Baldwin (28:17.717)
we're doing this work.
robertgreel (28:21.011)
Mm-hmm.
robertgreel (28:27.906)
You know, one experience I've had was kind of centric around the physical body experience, sorry, the physical body appearance. And...
There's a lot as kids as we grew up that tell you that your body should look like this and your face should look like that and your hair should be this way and your penis should be this or your boobs should be that and your butt and I'm a guy. It's like I'm not even a woman of any sorts. And the pressure's a lot. At some point,
I think I got tired of worrying about it. I think there was a place where like, I didn't choose this body. And the part of me that's always that like is in the back of my head, always fighting back. Like, my body just looked like X, but my body looks like Y things would be different. And because of that, maybe I don't, I don't give, I don't open myself up.
Dani (29:40.753)
So.
robertgreel (29:45.492)
to others as much one way or the other. And I will say it was through like a couple of traumatic or just very intense times, couple of like relationship, friendship breakups and all that stuff. And that was like, I'm done with it all. And then I ended up at a Hot Springs, like a no clothing Hot Springs. like, I'm done. I'm happy with my body.
And everybody, and we're supposed to be here naked and just like this. And that experience of being around others that were like, yeah, that's the whole point of this place. It's like, it's no big deal, man. And it was like, great. It can be like that for everybody. And it can be like that for me. that's felt really great. You know, like my, there was at some point where I was losing a lot of my hair and I'm like,
You know what, man, I'm done. It's fine. Like I am who I am. And I'm very happy about that. That part that really pushed back that was there for a long time. And then I was happy to accept that part of me that I think had some other gift to give. And Danny, you've, you've, we've had a couple of talks about this. Like, what is, what is that voice and what is that voice? What's the gift that it's trying to give?
And you, and you kind of continue to ask further, like the part of me that's so resistant about, I'm, I'm losing my hair. I'm like thinning out on the top or whatever. what's that part of me? Like, what's it trying to do? It's probably trying to protect me a little bit from some sort of re ridicule or society norms, right? And then what is it actually maybe looking for? It's like, it wants to, it wants to be proud of itself.
It wants to be proud, wants to help me be proud of me. and also wants me to like, you know, be able to connect with others, right. And like not to be alone. so that's like, that's one chunk I think of, of like a relationship with the body. And there's this other piece of this other dynamic of,
robertgreel (32:09.266)
I love, I love the, I love the book, nonviolent communication. I'm like a big fan of let's talk about the action. Then let me tell you about my feeling and then like, let me make a request. Right. And it feels so good to like try really hard to be that person that you want to be to like conflict resolution and like work with your buds and everybody can has some value and they deserve to be seen. And then sometimes like.
Dani (32:13.731)
Mm-hmm.
robertgreel (32:39.687)
man, I am so sick of this. I am so tired. And I would just want to yell at the person that's not doing the thing they said they were going to do. Why is it my freaking job to do that? Tell them code what all this stuff and caught at the right time. I'm like, I just want to be the bad person. I just want to be that bad person. One of my most recent experiences of that I, I
Dani (32:42.549)
Hahaha!
Dani (33:02.222)
Mm-hmm.
robertgreel (33:08.019)
Thing that I do is I brewed and then I'm like kind of a brat and I like just shell up And I'm like you can see it in me. I know you can see it in me My partner Laura is like how you doing? I'm like, I know you know it's been like this for two days and I got I had some friction with somebody all in my own head because I didn't even talk to them about it. This is just in my
Dani (33:22.953)
Hahaha!
robertgreel (33:37.062)
monologue. And then I got to a point
Dani (33:38.954)
Isn't it amazing the worlds we create in our heads?
robertgreel (33:42.104)
as wild as wild. It's like, they're not even in here with me. I'm doing the work anyways, I'm or nor work, but like, they're not having a bad time. They're great. I'm having a bad time. I got to the point where I said, you know what, I can be that bad person. I'm gonna be a bad boy. That's fine. I'm done. And as soon as I like let that in, I
felt my body release the tension and like, okay, I can go talk to them now. And then we had the conversation like that and it was beautiful and fine. It was totally fine. And so like two days of just getting ramped up like that, right. And listening for my body, hearing my body say loud and proud, like once I got to the
Dani (34:22.07)
Nice.
robertgreel (34:37.552)
I'm gonna be that thing I don't wanna be that I'm so resistant to, even if it's in these terms of like somebody who's not conflict-resoluting, you know, as much as they could be.
Dani (34:50.786)
They're not doing it right.
robertgreel (34:52.741)
Yeah, they're not doing it right. They're not being the best that they can be. It's like, yeah, I think you got the idea.
Lucy Baldwin (34:58.729)
Yeah. Well, it's almost like a big part of the tension. Had nothing to do with them. It was all about your own, like, putting yourself in this expectation of like, I have to do it this way. And as soon as you let that go, you were like, that you didn't have to do it a certain way. It was actually just easy to do it the way that was going to flow. Just the true, the true way was able to happen.
robertgreel (35:28.281)
Mm-hmm, hopefully that's like a natural a natural way or it feels natural right and that's It's kind of letting Yourself and your body speak right and not and not putting friction in between in between that. Yeah
Lucy Baldwin (35:42.464)
Yeah, yeah, that's something I see so much with this. And I feel it, I've had this so many times too, where it's like, I get all like, I don't want to have to do this. And then as soon as I'm like, fuck it, I'm just going to do it how I want to do it. And then it just flows. It just sort of unfolds and unravels and works out. But it's like when we have these, yeah, we have these stories about how it needs to look that we have resistance to.
robertgreel (36:14.033)
Yeah. Yeah. It, it keeps us, it would be easier to bypass that part or, or make in in probably the practices that that, that time gets shorter, right? The more that we're practicing these, these things with ourselves, right? These meditations, these mindfulness, like a, a narrative with ourselves, right? Of what do I look like? What is, what am I supposed to look like? You know, and
Dani (36:28.75)
Absolutely.
Lucy Baldwin (36:28.831)
It definitely does.
Lucy Baldwin (36:43.465)
Yeah, because...
robertgreel (36:43.675)
Yeah, letting go of those.
Dani (36:43.714)
Yeah. You're like, here's, here's the part of me that actually really loves to brood because I want it my way. I want to be the brat that gets, you know, gets the chocolate ice cream, you know, whatever. I want it my way. I want to brood. You know, I want to whatever be selfish in that way, whatever, you know, like you give that to yourself and then you can be like, hi, you're here again. How cute is that? Let's play here now. And then.
robertgreel (36:49.103)
Mm-hmm.
robertgreel (37:12.765)
Mm-hmm.
Dani (37:13.924)
now we can go talk to the person, you know?
Lucy Baldwin (37:16.043)
Well, we also get into this binary thinking where we're like, either it's gonna be terrible and a disaster, or I have to do everything and I have to come in and I have to teach them about nonviolent communication and I have to be the one to hold it. And as soon as we just release that whole thing, then there's a third way, which is like...
Dani (37:21.646)
Thank
Lucy Baldwin (37:37.09)
we can just kind of like show up authentically and just have a conversation with another person that's just a real person that's gonna respond to us like a real person and the thing is is when we're in the binary thinking and we cut and we we come in from that place of Doing it the way we have to do it in order to make it work We actually end up showing up like an asshole Because we're angry about it. And so even though we're like, I'm the one who's doing it the good I'm the one who's doing it, right we end up
robertgreel (37:58.268)
Yeah.
Dani (37:58.318)
Totally.
Lucy Baldwin (38:06.109)
actually our whole energy, our whole posture, even if we're saying the right things is like, this is what happens. You know what I mean? Right. Right. And so we have to kind of like just, yeah, we have to kind of let go of all of our own stuff so that we can just truly show up as ourselves in the truth of the moment.
Dani (38:13.432)
I get to be superior, because I'm doing it right.
robertgreel (38:15.118)
Yeah
robertgreel (38:29.616)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. The brooding thing is like, think, I think I want to be seen, right? I want to be seen and recognized as someone who's doing it right, quote unquote, right. And no matter how hard I tried to not brood, it just, just as like, it's just right in my back pocket. And then I'm being seen, then I'm being seen. It's like, it's happening.
Dani (38:30.99)
Ew.
Lucy Baldwin (38:32.606)
Yucky.
Dani (38:41.71)
Thank
robertgreel (38:57.852)
You're getting what you want. I'm like, I wish I didn't look like a brat while I was getting seen.
Lucy Baldwin (39:06.367)
I never think brooding men look like bratty. I think brooding men, I mean, that's like a hot guy archetype in my book. I'm like...
robertgreel (39:12.859)
Yeah, yeah, it depends.
Dani (39:15.682)
There are many, you know, fancy novels right now where the male protagonist basically is that.
robertgreel (39:26.137)
Yeah, yeah, I think the bratty part is that I don't make eye contact And that's that's the real tell yeah, that's the real tell that I'm not in my body and I got something to say but I haven't figured out How where I need to be to be able to let it flow, you know is it's it's not a like the deep
Lucy Baldwin (39:37.035)
Mmm.
robertgreel (39:56.291)
Either like the higher voice, right? It's not like that, part of you has like a like a mean thing to say. Like it has the compassion, it has the empathy, it has the space. so finding, room for that higher voice to speak, right. And, and hopefully coming in a little bit more into balance, is helpful. But until then.
It's like full brat. No, no eyes, no eye contact.
Lucy Baldwin (40:28.769)
that's such good self-awareness that you recognize like this is the tell is no lack of eye contact. That's really good self-awareness. And so then you know, cause you're in your process and you're like, I'm not making eye contact. And so you're just, you know, when you're in that state and you can, you can just sort of like be in your process with it and hopefully let yourself just be in the process.
robertgreel (40:54.923)
Yeah, yeah, because what it's not about is beating yourself up about it, right? It is it is not about digging deeper and pushing, pushing away the bad stuff, right? They're like, what is this feeling that I have? Why is it feeling? It feels negative. I don't want to touch it. You know, some friends, once in a while will say like, but we don't have to, we don't have to talk about just good vibes, just good vibes. And it's like, buddy.
Have you seen this book? Yeah, because bad vibes are cool to check out and touch and feel and see what's over there.
Dani (41:29.774)
about rock your world.
Dani (41:37.758)
are fun and sexy and creates, I mean, it gives you so much more of a world. It expands your world. It doubles how big your world can be, how much you can enjoy and approve of and have fun with. At least that's what it's done for me.
robertgreel (41:44.165)
Mm-hmm.
robertgreel (41:52.335)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lucy Baldwin (41:55.042)
I mean, I've always been a big fan of conflict. I've always been one of those people who, if something happens in a relationship with somebody, I'm immediately in your face like, okay, this is what's happening. This is how I feel about it. Like, let's talk. I'm just really intense. But I love that because that's where, that's how I find the gold in my relationships. Like the disagreements are what creates that growth. It's that arc of like tension and then like,
peak of like, blah, and then of conflict. And then the coming down and just being like, that feels so good. Like we resolved it and now we've grown together and we have more intimacy and we know that we can work through stuff. so I'm never shy about conflict. I'm like, let's go. And EK is kind of like that with life.
Dani (42:47.874)
Lucy, you just completely reframed conflict as a intimacy orgasm. love that. Thank you.
robertgreel (42:48.163)
Mm-hmm.
Lucy Baldwin (42:56.725)
Well, that's such a good way. That is how I see it. That is how I see it. And like sometimes it's like in relationships with people in certain types, especially in like in work or business or whatever. It's like, I don't know yet until we have conflict. Like, I don't know yet how this is going to go.
robertgreel (43:16.781)
Yeah, it's a good, there's like a nice Bill Watterson quote that I won't quote well, but the author of Calvin and Hobbes about like a good friendship is built off of like a test of wills. And it's like, all right, this is all cool and everything's cool, but how are things when we get into a disagreement, right? And that can be spicy and the result being.
really fun, if not just like makeup sex is also nice when that's the case, right? But there's like a nice, there's a nice big arc that can that can happen sex or not for the people involved that deepens that relationship that I think is so so valuable.
Lucy Baldwin (44:00.564)
Yeah. Well, exactly. It's like, I can get along with anyone for a good while. I mean, I can have a great time with basically, I feel like anyone in the world for a long time. But at some point there is going to be conflict. And that's the test is like, how do you show up in conflict? Are you able to like work it out with me or are you not able to? And I'm like pretty generous, I think, you know, with people in conflict, but I'm also like...
I'm not gonna take on more than is mine.
robertgreel (44:34.841)
That's a practice. That's a practice. This is real. It's really easy to, right? But to kind of know yourself, I find in moments of conflict, it seems to make sense, but you know, when we're at our best is when we're in our bodies and we're aligned enough ourselves to be able to be fully present with the person. And it can get...
You can feel the heat and some of that's really exciting. You know, that's like a little bit of the play, a little bit of the chase and maybe standing for your values, what you believe in, how the dishes should get put away. know, like question mark on like how spicy per topic. but the, the, it's really helpful to come to have our practice at home.
right, to then enter in those moments of conflict and generally, and hopefully create like a better positive outcome, right? But conflict doesn't need to be, we can't, I don't want to have a bad conversation. I don't want to fight. So we won't because fighting's bad, right? if we, if we think a little bit further, hopefully like, the end result of us working this out will be a deeper.
Lucy Baldwin (45:55.102)
Exactly.
robertgreel (46:02.85)
more fruitful, vulnerable, and trusting relationship to have.
Lucy Baldwin (46:08.125)
Exactly, exactly. Which reminds me, because another question I have for you, I know a lot of people who come into this work end up shedding some of their relationships. I certainly shed relationships. And I'm curious if you had any relationships shed just through your sort of committing to and really going deep into this work.
robertgreel (46:30.55)
Yeah, let me get my names out first and last and I will go down the list. No cutouts. However, I found that I was able to set my own boundaries for what I was willing to give. And I think the amount that I was recognizing of myself for
what my subconscious would do and do and do and do over and over again. And like, I need something, something needs something. And that's on me. can resolve, can sit with that and work to resolve that. And I saw repeating patterns in some relationships or some friends and for my own health. I said, I'm yeah, let's, let's get on the call. like, I got 40 minutes.
But like during those 40 minutes or during those 20 minutes, like I'm here, I'm fully here and I want to be here. And then on the hang up and you're going to hang up and we're going to feel great about it. that, that when I, when I saw, you know, doing the practices empowered me to feel like I can give myself that and not take on too much. Like you were saying, not.
especially without consent, have someone dump on you all the things, right? Like, no, I can, I can protect myself, hold myself and make this, and this is better for both of us. so, but I can give you the names if you want. Yeah. Yeah. You've, you've had that experience you've had to cut out or, or, or shed, shed relationships in the past.
Lucy Baldwin (48:06.657)
You
Lucy Baldwin (48:22.763)
So I think more so when I really got into learning about the drama triangle, I shed a very, like a relationship that was taking up a lot, let's say taking up a lot of my time, taking up a lot of my bandwidth. And it wasn't me, like,
I shouldn't say it wasn't me. It wasn't my decision. Like I was like, I'm here, I'm available, but I have boundaries and limitations. And no, I'm not gonna stop being friends with your ex and no, I'm not gonna like hate his ex, his new girlfriend. Like I'm not gonna play that, those games. Like those are my boundaries. But I will, but like I'm still here and I'm still here.
Right? Like I'm still, it's been years, but I'm like, I'm still here. And, but for that other person, like those boundaries and those things were a no. And so it, you know, that's kind of how it, that's kind of how it went. So.
Dani (49:35.521)
Yeah, I would agree with that. Like, it's not that I, you know, cut people out of my life. It's that the dynamic that the two of us were creating outside of myself, I finally allowed myself to just enjoy within myself to the point where I didn't need the dynamic anymore. And so the dynamic changed and that person wasn't getting what they wanted from me anymore.
You know, so sometimes, I mean, I would say a lot of relationships shifted and changed. and some just kind of fell away because we weren't feeding each other in the same way anymore. And we didn't find another way to like. Relate another way to actually enjoy each other's company, you know, which is great. It, it really, yeah.
It clarifies things, I would say.
robertgreel (50:38.324)
Yeah. And then, people get a choice, right? If you make a decision, then they get to choose what they want to do. But I, but some of the, some of the practice practices allows, I have found like allows me to be able to make the choice I need to make, you know, and, feel comfortable with who I need to be or who I want to be. Maybe not need to be, but who I want to be, you know? and then I can say,
Dani (50:43.116)
Yeah, totally.
robertgreel (51:07.881)
this is what I'm doing. Now you get to choose. And then they're free to choose, you know.
Lucy Baldwin (51:13.855)
Yeah, I think there's a big piece of this around like allowing ourselves to be what we are, you know, because so much of it is around releasing like the shame and the like ideals, the arbitrary ideals that we have. And once we do that, it's like, I mean, a big piece of this, and I think this is what we're touching on here is like,
shedding the need to be liked and the need for other people to approve and for other people to validate us. I think that's such an important thing that I think it just kind of happens automatically when you start doing this work is you start to become the one that's validating you. so yeah, you suddenly kind of like what you're saying, Dani, it's like, you don't need those dynamic, like you don't need those other relationships.
And also, a big part for me was like getting grossed out by the relationships where I felt like I was that person who was having to constantly validate the other person. And I was like, I don't want to do this because I feel like I'm actually lying to you and it's dishonest and it's weird and it's not helping you. Like, it's not helpful. Like we actually lie all the time when we're not just...
trusting ourselves and in our truth, we lie to make other people like us and we tell ourselves we're doing it for them. But of course we're doing it for ourselves because it makes us feel good to make other people feel good because then they like us and it's really all about us. And so actually telling the truth is the kindest thing, even when the truth is a hard truth.
Dani (52:49.934)
You
Lucy Baldwin (52:56.661)
Yeah. Sorry.
robertgreel (52:56.798)
Go Lucy, go Lucy, go Lucy, go girl, go girl, that's it, preach it, preach it. Yeah, yeah, the lying to ourselves is a good bit, right? And that's kind of, I will continue to point to the conscious and the subconscious, right? But this dialogue we have in our mind or between a couple of voices and we say, well, I'm doing this for them. And so I call, man.
Dani (52:58.567)
It's really crazy to see. Yeah.
robertgreel (53:26.362)
It's like, check it, check. Like, are we doing it for them? Are we doing it for us so we can make sure they see us? Maybe that's what's going on. But if we're not being, if we're not able to like pass the truth test, right? Or if our body doesn't tell us that we're like a full body, yes, that like what I'm talking about is feeling right, then there's something up there.
and or we're just like lying. We're lying to those around us and like not helping anybody, not helping ourselves and not helping them.
That's good.
Lucy Baldwin (54:05.515)
Well, Danny, is there anything else that we should ask Bob while we have him here?
Dani (54:09.196)
Man, I don't know. mean, I feel like we could keep talking for hours, but I also think that was just an amazing last, you know, thing to say. So I don't know if it's going to get better than that.
robertgreel (54:24.457)
You're dropping some bars and it's like, I think that might be it.
Lucy Baldwin (54:30.985)
Well, it was such a pleasure getting to know you, Bob. And I'm so glad that Danny invited you on and that you came here and that you took the time to talk with us. And I'm so glad that you discovered EK and that you've been sharing the good word.
robertgreel (54:45.012)
Thank you for having me. It was very sweet and kind. I do love this material, this topic, this mindset and chatting with friends about it. And I'm really enjoying the work you all are doing.
Dani (55:00.447)
Thank you so much, Bob.
Lucy Baldwin (55:02.421)
Yeah, thank you, Bob.
robertgreel (55:04.244)
Thank you guys.
New to Lucy’s work?
Start with Lucy Baldwin’s complete overview of Shadow Alchemy here:
Lucy Baldwin’s Shadow Alchemy Hub
Penetrate Radio explores shadow work, desire, magic, embodiment, self-honesty, radical approval, Existential Kink, and the hidden patterns that shape our lives from underneath.
Frequently Asked Questions
What does “Existential Kink in the wild” mean?
Existential Kink in the wild means practicing EK outside formal coaching or course containers, in real friendships, partnerships, money fears, body image issues, conflict, boundaries, and daily life.
What is the Deepest Fear Inventory?
The Deepest Fear Inventory is an Existential Kink practice where you follow a fear all the way down by repeatedly asking what would happen next. This can reveal the emotional structure underneath anxiety and make the fear more workable.
How can Existential Kink help with money fear?
Existential Kink can help you feel the body charge around money, question the beliefs underneath the fear, and notice hidden identities or stories that make money anxiety feel permanent.
Can conflict deepen intimacy?
Yes, when the relationship has enough safety, honesty, and willingness. Conflict can reveal truth, create repair, and deepen trust when both people are able to stay present and work through it.
Does shadow work change relationships?
Often, yes. As you become more honest, boundaried, and self-validating, old dynamics may shift. Some relationships deepen, some become cleaner, and some naturally fall away.
Next Steps
If this episode resonated with you, the next step is DOMINION: A Field of Radical Approval.
DOMINION is Lucy Baldwin’s space for practicing radical approval, shadow integration, desire work, relational truth, and the deeper transformation at the heart of Shadow Alchemy.
You can also continue exploring Lucy’s current offerings, free practices, podcast links, and other work here: