Bringing Existential Kink to Medical Professionals With Annelle Taylor | Penetrate Radio, Episode 5
In Episode 5 of Penetrate Radio, Lucy Baldwin speaks with Annelle Taylor, a certified Existential Kink coach, former nurse practitioner, and creator of B Camp, about burnout, medicine, feeling, cancer, systems of harm, and what becomes possible when medical professionals are given space to become human again.
Annelle spent many years working in medicine, including as a nurse practitioner in New York City. After being diagnosed with lung cancer in 2018, she began questioning the relationship between burnout, stress, illness, systems, and the way healthcare workers are trained to suppress emotion in order to function.
This conversation is not anti-medicine. In fact, Annelle and Lucy both express deep gratitude for modern medicine and the life-saving treatments it can provide. But it asks a necessary question: what might happen if the medical system made room for feeling, embodiment, play, shadow work, and collective healing alongside science, skill, and clinical care?
Watch or listen to Episode 5 of Penetrate Radio here:
Key Takeaways
In this episode, Lucy and Annelle explore:
Annelle’s transition from nurse practitioner to nurse witch, coach, and facilitator
her experience with lung cancer and life-saving targeted medicine
why science and magic may not be as separate as we think
how burnout can make people reject the very communities they once served
why medical professionals need spaces to feel, not only function
how Existential Kink can support people working inside systems of harm
the creation of B Camp, or Bitch Camp, for medical professionals
why “feeling is healing” matters in medicine
the difference between empathy, compassion, and emotional leakage
how shadow work can help healthcare workers stay resourced
why inner work is necessary for real systems change
From Nurse Practitioner to Nurse Witch
Annelle describes herself as playing with the idea of being a “nurse witch.” After years in medicine, that phrase captures something important. Nurses and medical providers are already working with bodies, medicine, healing, illness, death, suffering, relief, and transformation. In another era, some of that work might have been recognized as witchcraft, herbalism, ritual care, or community healing.
For Annelle, the word “witch” is not a rejection of medicine. It is a way of reclaiming the mystery inside it. She still takes Western medicine. She is alive, in part, because of it. But she also sees how incomplete the system becomes when it denies feeling, embodiment, spirit, grief, and the emotional reality of both patients and providers.
That is the tension at the heart of this episode: deep gratitude for modern medicine, alongside a fierce desire to humanize the systems that deliver it.
Science and Magic Are Closer Than They Look
One of the most striking moments in the conversation is Annelle’s description of her cancer treatment. She takes pills that target a specific genetic driver of her cancer, and to her, that feels magical. When she once described the pills as magic to one of her doctors, he corrected her by saying they were science.
Annelle’s response was simple: what is the difference?
This is not a dismissal of science. It is a widening of awe. A medication that targets the biological mechanism of cancer and helps restore normal cell behavior is scientific, yes. But it is also astonishing. It is mysterious. It is the kind of thing that can make the boundary between medicine and magic feel thinner.
Lucy and Annelle are careful to honor modern medicine here. The conversation is not about rejecting science. It is about refusing to strip healing of wonder.
Burnout as a Spiritual and Systemic Crisis
Annelle’s cancer diagnosis gave her time away from work, and that time away revealed something she had not been able to see from inside the grind. She had been profoundly burnt out.
She had spent years preparing for a career in medicine, working extremely hard, taking work home, skipping lunch, carrying patients in her mind, and pushing through. When she finally stepped away, she realized there was a whole world outside work and academia. There was sunshine. There was space. There was life beyond the loop of leaving work, eating, sleeping, and returning to the grind.
Burnout is often treated as an individual problem, but Annelle’s story points toward something larger. Burnout is not only about personal resilience. It is also about systems that ask people to function without space, feeling, nourishment, or adequate support.
Healing Circles During the Pandemic
When the pandemic began, Annelle was sent home because her cancer affected her lungs and the clinic did not want to risk her exposure. At the same time, she had already experienced the power of collective healing spaces, circles, and group practices outside the medical system.
So she began holding healing circles with colleagues.
The timing was intense. The pandemic was unfolding, George Floyd was murdered, and the Bronx, where Annelle worked, was absorbing enormous pressure and grief. These circles became a space where medical professionals could feel, connect, and process what they were carrying.
The response was powerful. People felt transformed. They felt better. But then, as Annelle describes it, the system eventually returned to “the real work,” as if feeling were not part of the real work.
This episode challenges that split. What if feeling is part of the real work?
Inner Work and Systems Change
Annelle connects her healing circles and B Camp to a bigger vision: systems change cannot happen without inner work.
This is a crucial point. Institutions can hire consultants, create diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, rewrite policies, and restructure workflows. Those things may matter. But if the people inside the system are still operating from repression, fear, burnout, dissociation, resentment, martyrdom, and emotional shutdown, the external changes may not go deep enough.
Shadow work does not replace structural change. It supports the human capacity required to make structural change real.
If people cannot feel, cannot tolerate discomfort, cannot admit shadow, cannot sit with grief, and cannot stop projecting their unprocessed pain onto one another, then the system keeps reproducing harm through human bodies.
What Is B Camp?
B Camp, short for Bitch Camp, is Annelle’s emerging body of work for medical professionals. It uses the archetype of the bitch as a spicy, playful, powerful way to explore strength, wildness, deconditioning, burnout, systems of harm, emotional expression, and collective support.
The name is intentionally edgy, especially in medical spaces where language tends to be polished, serious, cautious, and professional. That edginess is part of the medicine. It brings play into a system that can be brutally rigid.
Annelle describes B Camp as a place where medical professionals can work with feeling, shadow, and embodiment so they can return to their work with more spaciousness and power. It is not about becoming less serious about care. It is about becoming more human while doing serious work.
The Bitch, the Martyr, the Queen, and the Victim
Part of the brilliance of the B Camp frame is that the bitch archetype contains many shadow faces.
The bitch can be strong. She can be wild. She can be fierce, powerful, direct, and unwilling to play nice for the sake of social comfort. But Annelle also names the martyr, the victim, and the one who is “so good at everything” as part of the same archetypal field.
This is especially relevant for medical professionals, many of whom are trained to over-function, over-give, endure, sacrifice, and perform competence under pressure. The martyr can look noble, but she can also become resentful, depleted, and quietly furious.
Shadow work gives these figures a place to speak. The goal is not to shame the martyr or glamorize the bitch. The goal is to make the pattern conscious, so the energy can be reclaimed.
Feeling Is Healing
One of Annelle’s clearest teachings is that feeling is healing.
In many medical settings, feeling is implicitly treated as a problem. Providers are trained to stay composed, move quickly, make decisions, avoid emotional entanglement, and keep the system moving. There are reasons for this. Lives are on the line, and clinical work requires skill, focus, and professionalism.
But when emotion is systematically removed from the room, something human gets lost.
Patients are often afraid. They are receiving diagnoses, undergoing procedures, confronting pain, making decisions, and facing uncertainty. Providers are also human beings in those rooms. If they have no relationship with their own feelings, it becomes much harder to hold someone else’s fear, grief, or pain with genuine compassion.
The answer is not emotional collapse. It is emotional capacity.
Compassion Is Not the Same as Taking Everything On
Lucy makes an important distinction between empathy and compassion.
Empathy is often described as feeling what someone else feels, but in intense care environments, that can become overwhelming. If a provider takes on every patient’s fear, grief, pain, and crisis as their own, they may become depleted, leaky, or unable to stay present.
Compassion is different. Compassion cares deeply without necessarily absorbing the other person’s experience. It can hold the patient in dignity, strength, and trust. It can say, “I see you. I care. I believe you can move through this.”
That kind of compassion requires self-trust. If a provider has faced their own grief and discomfort, they can be more present with another person’s emotions without needing to flee, fix, suppress, or take over.
The Problem With “You Can’t Take These People Home With You”
Annelle remembers being told that she could not take patients home with her. On one level, this is true. Healthcare workers need boundaries. They cannot carry every patient all the time and remain well.
But Annelle did take patients home with her, at least in her mind. She worried about them. She thought about whether she had done something correctly. She carried their experiences inside herself.
This is where Existential Kink and shadow work can become practical. Why do I think I need to carry this person after I leave? What am I getting from worrying? What fear, guilt, control, or identity is involved? Can I be fully present when I am with them and then return to my own life when I am home?
That is not coldness. It is energetic hygiene.
Supporting Providers Inside Systems of Harm
Annelle is especially interested in supporting medical professionals who are working inside systems that cause harm.
This is a hard truth. Many providers enter medicine because they want to help people, but they find themselves inside institutions shaped by underfunding, hierarchy, racism, ableism, insurance systems, productivity metrics, burnout, and emotional suppression. The person may care deeply, but the system may still create harm.
This is precisely where shadow work becomes valuable. If providers cannot feel their own grief, rage, guilt, resentment, and helplessness, those energies do not disappear. They may leak into patient care, staff dynamics, or private collapse.
B Camp offers another possibility: spicy, embodied, collective inner work that helps people stay in relationship with their humanity while doing difficult work.
Existential Kink for Burnout Alchemy
Annelle plays with the phrases burnout liberation and burnout alchemy.
That feels accurate because the goal is not simply to reduce burnout symptoms so people can keep enduring the same conditions forever. The deeper invitation is to transform the relationship to work, feeling, identity, service, martyrdom, and the body.
Existential Kink can help because burnout has shadow content. There can be hidden pleasure in being needed, being the only one who can handle it, sacrificing everything, hating the system, resenting colleagues, or proving you are stronger than your limits.
This is delicate work. It is not about blaming the burned-out person. It is about giving them back agency, choice, and self-contact inside conditions that often strip those things away.
Medicine Needs More Play
Medical culture can be very serious, and often for good reason. But Annelle points out that there is very little fun in many medical spaces.
This matters. Play is not frivolous. Play creates flexibility, connection, creativity, and nervous system relief. It helps people experiment without needing to get everything perfectly right.
Annelle describes medical professionals as “good students.” They want to know exactly how to do the practice correctly. This makes sense in a world where mistakes can have serious consequences. But in shadow work, the obsession with getting it right can block the actual transformation.
Sometimes the medicine is to play, swamp, move, feel, and discover that not everything has to be performed perfectly.
Returning to Her People
One of the most moving parts of the episode is Annelle’s honesty about leaving medicine and initially wanting nothing to do with medical professionals.
After burnout, she felt like she hated them. She did not want to work with nurses. She saw them as grumpy, overworked martyrs. Then, after a year away, she realized: these are my people.
That turn is deeply Shadow Alchemy. The very group she rejected became the group she was called to serve. The hatred, disgust, and distance were not the end of the story. They were part of the alchemical process.
Sometimes we need space before love can return. Sometimes burnout has to be given time to rage, refuse, and recover before the deeper devotion becomes visible again.
The Gift Annelle Is Bringing to Medicine
Annelle is bringing something rare into medical spaces: a willingness to combine science, embodiment, shadow, archetype, feeling, play, and collective support without pretending any one of those pieces is enough by itself.
She is not asking providers to abandon medicine. She is asking what expansion might happen if medicine made room for feeling. What happens when providers are supported to be embodied humans, not just clinical machines? What happens when people inside systems of harm have places to process, feel, laugh, rage, grieve, and return to themselves?
That question matters for providers, and it matters for patients too.
Healing expands beyond one exam room when the people doing the healing are allowed to be human.
-
speaker-1 (00:15.054)
Hello, welcome to another episode of Penetrate Radio. I'm Lucy Baldwin, your host. And today I have with me, Annel Taylor, who is another one of our certified existential kink coaches. And she is here to talk to us today about her work and her experience with existential kink. Welcome.
speaker-0 (00:34.968)
Thank you. Yay, so excited to be here.
speaker-1 (00:37.751)
Yeah, I would love for you to do to give us a little background about yourself and your story and sort of how you got into existential king.
speaker-0 (00:46.584)
Yes.
Well, I just updated my bio to send to you like 15 minutes before this show. and,
I was playing with the idea that I'm a nurse, which so I for a long time I was a nurse practitioner here in New York City. That's where I live.
Since 2010, so I worked in that for, time is a little weird right now, but 14 or 15 years. And I basically spent my whole life preparing for that career. Like I worked as a nurse aide, was, did abortion backup and like all this stuff. And was diagnosed with cancer in 2018, like lung cancer, the kind that they were like, maybe you'll die. And I was like,
there be something else out there and could my career be contributing to this? Because I realized I was, well, I didn't know the word at the time, but I realized I was suffering and it turns out it was like extremely burnt out and also, you know, according to astrology, not a nurse. But I'm playing with the idea that I'm a nurse witch because I think there's, I think I was drawn to that career.
speaker-0 (02:05.646)
because in the modern world, that's what a witch looks like potentially as a nurse. Like we're playing with medicine, just looks a little different than herbs. So this just came to me. This is not like a fully formed thought, but yeah, I once was a nurse. I've left that career. And that's like a whole story. It does have to do a little bit with cancer and also with the work in this container and beyond. But when I got
cancer, I had the opportunity to take time off of work and I realized there was a world outside of work and academia and all this stuff I had been like doing my whole life. It's like sunshine, you know, like you don't have to just like leave and go home and eat and then return to the grind again. And I was taking work home. I was so unhealthy. And so when I started to wonder if my career was like contributing to my health,
which by the way, Western medicine will not tell me that it was, but I'm certain now the stress and burnout and all that contributed. It's not like a blame thing. It's just what I understand to have happened. I started looking for like other things outside of Western medicine and that's how I found this space. think it was, so I was diagnosed in 2018. I first heard of existential kink probably in like 2020 or 2019 even.
through this person that I now work with in another area of my life that's expanding, like wealth abundance is what I do with this person. So it's all interconnected, but that, yeah, when I heard of Existential Keek, it kind of like dropped in and then it like kept coming back and coming back until I signed up to do the Penetrate course. When was that? That was 20, 24, I think, or 25.
Yeah, 24, September 24. So I finished the container a year ago. like officially became certified or whatever. I mean, I could go, there's so many things to say about that, but I was just thinking before we got on this call, how I mentioned to one of my doctors. So my treatment for cancer is not chemotherapy. take these pills that literally target the DNA receptor that causes the cancer cells to grow and they re.
speaker-0 (04:28.238)
program the DNA and cause normal quote unquote cells to grow. To me, that's fucking crazy. And I was mentioning to one of my doctors to be fair, he was GI, so they're a little dry, wink, wink. And he was, and I was like, my pills are magic. And he was like, no, they're not, they're science. And I was like, what's the difference? And so was just thinking about that before coming on this call that like science is magic and magic is.
science and I don't have more to say about that at the moment, but it is magical that I take something and like literally I had this huge mass in my right lung and it's gone because of the cell targeted whatever therapy thing that I take that I don't fully understand.
speaker-1 (05:21.17)
Well, so and you did you have to do any of the other like radiation or chemo or any of that?
speaker-0 (05:26.702)
Um, and it's so I was told in January, January 4th of 2018 that like, oops, sorry, this isn't like an atypical something, something, you know, they have been telling me, oh, maybe it's this or that or the other. And I was like, I don't think so. Um, and then they got, they pulled fluid off my lung and they're like, it's cancer. Um, and so this time of year is a really potent time of year where I like, kind of like in my body, like relive shit that was going down. Um, I.
I guess I'm lucky because lung cancer, I was told like the lungs are the tendrous, most painful part of the body. And I didn't have to go through chemo radiation. had a surgery to pull fluid off my lungs because that's what the cancer mass was causing. And then from that, they were able to take...
I know they pull, they also took blood and they did some sort of molecular blood testing. I don't really understand all that. Like I was in medicine. like, I don't need to understand the things I don't understand. Someone else treat me and tell me what to do. until I also found like healer people and stuff. So like, you know, I take, I decide, guess with my body, what I want to do. But at any rate, once they pulled.
They took the blood and got that back. That's when I tested positive for this thing called ALK that they were able to say there's this medication that's been doing well. And that's how I ended up on this medication. And like I took the pill and I was like right away it worked. I felt like I could breathe better. And my oncologist is like, no, it takes a while to work. And I was like, I don't know. I felt better right away. So. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-1 (07:14.862)
That's kind of miraculous. I've never even heard of anything like this.
speaker-0 (07:18.86)
Well, I hadn't either. I was in, you know, like I said, I was a nurse for at this point had been a nurse practitioner for like seven, seven years or eight, I don't know time. and I thought you only got cancer from smoking. I literally had no idea that you, I mean, now it makes so much sense to me because I've like looked into and understand cancer better that like anything can cause it. And I can't believe we don't all have it.
I'm sorry for anybody who has fear of cancer, but there's so many good treatments out there. And also whatever, we just have to live our lives. But yes, this cancer is totally unrelated to smoking. was never a smoker. Wow.
speaker-1 (08:01.39)
Yeah.
So take me back to you sort of discovering existential kink and what was that like for you? How did it kind of hit you and what happened for you?
speaker-0 (08:17.582)
Yeah, I was thinking about that too. It was like this thing that I kept hearing. was in this other, when I got cancer and I was like, is there something else out there? One of the first things I found was that there was all these people doing what I call collective healing, like healing in circle, like spaces where you could go and like hang with other people and they did practices and people felt better and what it were. And I found many.
iterations of that. And one of the first things I did was this thing called Beyond Diversity 101, BD101. And one of the people from that was this woman, this person named Isha. And they had started a membership and I was like, I don't even know what that is, but Isha is the psychologist, let me like join this thing. And that's where they were talking about EK. So just the fact that it was like this person that I was like, they're trying to create a container outside of medicine.
like entrepreneur, didn't like know what that was. I got curious and then it kept dropping in. what I really got into, like what kind of pushed me into reading EK and like getting intrigued by it was Carolyn's cancellation. I don't remember what year that was because of the whole pandemic thing, but it happened at some point, I think like 22 or 21 or 23. And I was like, oh my God, this person.
is being like burned at the stake. And then I watched a call where like within a month she came on, was like, and she's still standing. Like, and so this thing is happening to me right now where I'm like, that was like my biggest fear. I'm sure it has to do with like lineage and where I'm literally being burned at the stake because of deciding to leave my partner. And I'm like, I'm still alive. there's
people still love me, people still talk to me. What my nervous system feared is happening to me currently. And I got really intrigued by like, how can we stand in the fire? Like if I'm gonna be this nurse practitioner who realizes the system is killing us y'all and wanna start talking about that and the reactions that it causes around like what...
speaker-0 (10:42.284)
resource can I use to be able to stand in that discomfort? So that's really like what got me into it. the city, I remember you described EK once you're like, if I could, I think this might be paraphrasing, but it's like kind of in my memory. I could summarize it, it's the experience of sitting in sensation, which I have come to understand sensation a lot of times we think is discomfort. Cause we're actually, at least for me, who was like a disembodied person, that sensation is feeling.
Like anything.
that got me intrigued. And then I don't know, like I hung around this community. took different courses. But then when the coaching program came out, I mean, I think I'll have done it before, but anyway, I was like, I think this is my time. I remember, I think I had a call with you for something else. then Leila, yeah, I just wanted to know how to do this with other people. And I wanted to practice it more rigorously so that
Got me intrigued by the coaching program and yeah, such a good container. Y'all create it. Holy shit. Like I'm still connected to my, coven and just those sessions. I'm realizing I'm like, I need the, or whatever need, but like want them because they are so, it's such a helpful practice.
speaker-1 (12:11.672)
So tell me what you're doing with it now. Like are you incorporating? Because you you mentioned something about money mindset or money.
speaker-0 (12:14.542)
BAM!
speaker-0 (12:20.29)
Yes. So what I started doing when I was like, hmm, system killing me, still alive though. Yay. So system also healing me because I take Western medicine. I fucking love it. It's awesome. Like the process I described to you still blows my mind. And by the way, no one ever described it to me. They're just like, take this medicine. works. It's like, what is it?
And so I took a year off of work because I, even though I didn't have to do chemo and all that stuff, I was very sick. Like, and also I had the opportunity and gratefully took a year off of work. had like amazing disability benefits as a nurse practitioner. Thank you, union. and so during that time I sat in a lot of circles, like,
Yoga, the Beyond Diversity, think maybe that's when I discovered Carolina. I don't know. just like saw the circles were cool and things happen. People felt transformed and connected. So when I came back to work, the pandemic started within like a year and I was in the Bronx. It was like such a shit. I mean, such a shit show. Like, and
They sent me home pretty much right away. Like virtual didn't exist. you know, live within the chaos, like a very chaotic medical place I was working in. Beautiful, amazing patients, fabulous providers, extremely chaotic and underfunded and all that. They sent me home because they were like, I don't know, it's in the lungs. Like we don't want you dying under watch. Like go home. We'll figure out how to do the, the virtual thing. And zoom was new and I had seen people do the circle stuff. So I started.
holding these healing circles with other colleagues. George Floyd was murdered. It was like all this stuff. And the Bronx just really absorbed a lot of it. And the healing circles are beautiful. And we continued them almost weekly for a while. And then like, you know, the pandemic ended and we had to get back to making the dollars. And this was just this place to feel our feelings, how, you know, that's not important. Also during this time, they called in DEI people.
speaker-0 (14:45.898)
to do this big project. And I've been saying this for years. I'm like the work that I'm offering, just saying, if we don't do this, that stuff that they're suggesting will never work. And guess what? I don't think much has changed at the clinic. So that's one of the things that when I was doing these healing circles, I was like, that's what I'm doing. I'm offering a space where we can do this inner work so that systems change might be possible. Because I don't think
it will change until we do. I don't think this is like a novel idea either. I think other people say it in other forms, but it occurred to me that that's what I was doing. So we got invited to the National Abortion Federation, which I felt like we were like Tony Robbins. was like, oh my God, I'm in front of a group of like 50 people doing this healing circle. It feels like so fabulous. And afterwards, everyone's like, ah, I feel amazing. And then they're like, okay, but back to the real work. But from that space,
some people noticed us. And so I've been doing that work in different iterations. And the iteration at the moment is called Bcamp, which stands for bitch camp. And it's taking the archetype of the bitch and like using that to fuel this idea that we can show up as like strong, wild humans and also
the softer side, it's about deconditioning and sitting in systems of harm and supporting inner work, but like spicy inner work. mean, I think it is EK. Like, I feel like this archetypal work, I'm sitting with like how I needed EK to be able to like work with the bitch. And yeah, there's, there's a lot there, but yeah, at the moment, that's what I'm doing. I'm creating.
This thing called B-Camp, we were doing these healing circles and now what I'm doing is like really going in with the B-Camp. Like I'm expanding the outreach to invite other medical folks who to be quite honest, when I left medicine, I was like, I hate these people. I don't want to work with nurses. Sorry y'all. That's how I felt. I was like so burnt out. And then I've had a year off and I was like, they're my people.
speaker-0 (17:08.982)
And I already have like connections and I really believe that the system, they're, these are the witches. Like I would like to support them.
speaker-1 (17:18.858)
Yes, I'm glad that you came back to that.
speaker-0 (17:21.069)
I know I just had to be an asshole for a while because I was so just, I was literally like, I don't want to work with a nurse. They're like grumpy and they overwork and they're such martyrs. which is just another form of the bitch, by the way, there's she's, you know, she, they, he is all the things, the queen, the martyr, the victim. She's so good at everything. That's why I love her. and so.
This Vcamp, I'm envisioning it being this anchor space for folks to come at the moment. It's them presenting folks. But we've been talking about the masculine version or incorporating. whatever. I'm starting with what I have capacity to do and using that as an anchor for folks to come. And then I'm going to build deeper work from that.
because every time people come to B Camp all two times that they've done it, they're like, how do we stay connected? Like, where does this continue? So that's what I've noticed in doing the healing circles and the B Camp is that people really like this. They feel transformed and then they go back to their regular overworked lives doing really important work.
at a pace that is untenable. And I'm curious about, like normalizing, I don't know what the word is, but like making this what we do to support each other so that we can go stand for reproductive justice and like make sure abortion still exists in Texas and like all the other things that people are doing get people.
just basic healthcare in the middle of the country, all the things. Hmm. And so I think, yeah, I was just going to try to tie this like, yeah, tie back existential thinking. feel like it's a living example of existential thinking, I do the practices that we do at Bcamp. They're very EK, like sitting with your, like finding your feelings, sitting with it, noticing what's coming up. and then reframing that.
speaker-0 (19:42.702)
in a system of harm, like if someone's doing something harmful at your clinic or whatever, first being in your body before you go to like react or make a plan.
speaker-1 (19:55.439)
So it sounds like what this so it sounds like B camp is really about supporting nurses.
speaker-0 (20:04.322)
Yeah. So how funny, I'm not hired by a nursing organization. It's my, the organization that I've been working for is, the American medical student association. Shout out to the fabulous folks there who believed in us and saw the potential with this weird wild work. Cause it's definitely edgy for medicine. mean, even like we call it B camp. mean, that's just what I wanted to call it that.
to be a little playful, but you know, we don't talk like that at medicine. So this is a, medical student organization, but they're intertwined with reproductive justice. That's like the community. And so they're connected with all these different organizations where healthcare providers work. So it would mostly be doctors and physicians, but
There's also nurse practitioners. So it's, it's really starting from like the medicine, medical framework, which I don't know anything about. went to nursing school. don't, I still don't understand medical school. I'm like, y'all have to do a residency. don't know what that is, but let's talk about the bitch. I can do that, which to me speaks to the universality of this work and how much fun people are having. It's also like, there's not, they're not having fun. Edison is so.
rigid, like if we could just bring a little fun into the space. Yeah. Yeah.
speaker-1 (21:36.032)
Yeah, and I can see how even just having, so how, yeah, I can see how even just like learning from you and even if it's not forever, I mean, I'm not sure like what the duration of the program is, but I can see how it can help someone find balance and bring this like forward into their career, like in medicine, whatever it is. And have like that perspective, like you're giving them something that you didn't have when you went in.
speaker-0 (22:05.134)
Totally. Yeah. It's like, I've been playing with calling it burnout liberation, burnout alchemy. And I think that looks like building spaciousness within. Like we're so constricted and tight and stressed about what we're doing and just shoving food down our, like I never even took lunch for 14 years or however long I worked. I never took lunch. That's crazy.
like literally no space, like got to work. and so what I've, I am curious. I'm in the process of like unfolding and which I also think is EK. Like, I don't know. I'm not going, and it's not medicine. When we go in, there's an algorithm, you know, what's going to happen. They gave me the medicine, the cure read is this within 11 months, you know, all this stuff. I don't know what's going to happen. And I'm like really honest with them and there's like.
We know that this work helps people feel better. I'm curious about what that does to a system when more people get involved in the practices. Like I do have a vision that like clinics, hospitals would have healing circles, some version of healing circle where they were like actively offering and engaging in these practices, you know, and they would love to do studies and all that. So let them.
So they all hire the people to do those because they love studies, We have to prove that the thing that's working works.
speaker-1 (23:36.298)
Yeah, because I mean, well, and yes, and they like that. And that's like, that's in line with the science, you know, the like, the medical sort of community. And that's great. Because, you know, we see that in psychology, like in the world of psychology, they do these studies and, and, and it shows that things work and then they can grow. Because people are willing to make space for things like that. And I don't know. You know, I've never worked in the medical industry, but
It is a very, like you're saying, it's very sort of rigid and deterministic and it's very sort of like, it's very serious. And it kind of has to be because lives are on the line, right? It's like, it really matters. there's, and so I feel like I could just see though how...
giving people what you're giving them would make them so much better at that, at being able to do that job.
speaker-0 (24:38.496)
Yeah, what I so this is something I was told when I first got to the Bronx. mean, the Bronx is like, you know, there's the stereotypes are really good. I was like the white lady, you know, walking into the Bronx like even by the time I left, they'd be like that white lady, like the one that I see. So, you know, it's beautiful. It's amazing. I love just shout out to all the beautiful people that changed my life and gave me a deep.
education, but it is, you know, intense. and so when I first got there, one of my mentors told me that there's only one person, one uncomfortable person in the room and it's not you.
speaker-0 (25:24.382)
And what I realized over time is what they were saying is that when we go into these rooms, there's like stats and medicines and things we're talking to people about, and we can't bring emotion. There just can't be emotion in the room. And I'm curious about why that is. just don't, I think that creates harm in our bodies and then we like project that onto each other.
So I'm curious about a place where there is like play and pleasure and interaction. Like what does that do to the interactions with patients and with each other? Like, you know, the interactions between staff is a really significant, we're spending hours and hours and hours with each other. And I think that like the seriousness and rigid, like, lives that are on the line, yes. But does that cancel out the need for like emotion and
feeling. Right. Yeah.
speaker-1 (26:24.16)
Right. And also because patients are often scared. And so being able to hold them and that starts with being able to hold yourself.
speaker-0 (26:40.82)
in your neurons, they're real. They're like literally it said that's, you know, the science of projection or whatever. It's like that. If I'm not uncomfortable because I'm checked out and dissociated, like what is the patient in front of me doing? The person in front of me.
speaker-1 (26:57.07)
Like what's happening?
speaker-0 (26:58.478)
with them. And this idea that we have to remove, like, I think the term is humanity, which is which feeling like that we would have to remove that from a scenario. It's like mind boggling to me now. It seems so obvious that
Feeling is healing and if you're entering a system where they're like, do not feel.
speaker-0 (27:28.77)
Just treat them.
speaker-0 (27:33.569)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (27:36.142)
And do think there's a piece here about like protecting yourself?
speaker-0 (27:41.87)
Yeah, I do. That if you're, I mean...
speaker-0 (27:49.89)
Like the same person, I love her so much, but she also said, you can't take these people home with you. Like when you're at the clinic, like you're there, it's all that. And then you got to go home to your life. I did not do that very well. I took people home with me in my brain, by the way. But it sounds funny to say, yes, I thought about them all the time. I couldn't not worry if I like had placed an IUD incorrectly or, know,
But I do, so I do think that's a skill to like, and EK would be something, that would be like a great practice to work on like, you know, why do I think I have to like be thinking about this person all the time when I'm present, I'm present. And when I'm not, I'm at my house enjoying my dinner. but I think there's a fear. Like I know with it, when the healing circle was at the clinic in the Bronx where I worked, people would be like,
that's that place where you go fill your feelings. And a lot of people were afraid of it. There was like, there was all this, I don't know, drama around it. And I, yeah, I mean, I'm curious about it. Like, can we support systems, ourselves to be systems of feeling for the greater healing and also like understand boundaries and like how we do not leak.
I mean, guess that would, I would think about that in terms of like protection that we're not like becoming leaks of being so empathetic that we can't stay in our own experience.
speaker-1 (29:29.664)
Yeah. think there's so, gosh, wow. Yeah, there's so much I never even thought about any of this stuff, but I can see how it's like, yeah, because you have to, you can't just repress it and suppress it, right? That literally makes you ill. I mean, that gave you cancer.
speaker-0 (29:36.59)
So fascinating.
speaker-0 (29:45.548)
That's what, yeah, so it's like the fear that I might like cry with a patient, which is just wild to me now. I'm like crying, which by the way, I had to learn how to do that. So the lungs supposedly are grief. That's what all the healers told me. And I was like, yeah, I don't do that crying thing. And so I had to like learn to cry. And the idea that that's like weak or like wrong.
to share a compassionate moment someone is just mind blowing to be. But yeah, the opposite is like this repression, literally, like there's really good science on repression of emotions. There's some like, dis-ease leads to disease.
speaker-1 (30:28.376)
Yeah. Yeah. And so finding the balance of allowing yourself to feel what's present, but then also being professional with people and not, yeah, like projecting emotions onto them. And I think, and because you mentioned like not being overly empathic, because I think that, I actually think there's an important distinction between compassion and empathy, which is like, empathy is like literally taking on people's feelings and pain.
And compassion is caring about them, right? It's like caring about their experience, but not necessarily needing to take on their pain personally. And I think that compassion is something that is very hard to find if we haven't faced our own emotions. And it's really hard to strike the balance if we can't handle the emotions ourselves. Like if I know that I can handle grief and discomfort and all of that, then
I can trust someone else's ability to hold it and to feel it and to move through it and to resource themselves. And so I can offer that support of like, you know, I can sort of project onto them the belief in them. Like I can give them, I can just hold them in a place of, know you can handle this.
speaker-0 (31:47.054)
And I know you need to, like I know how important it is because I now understand on a deep lived experience of my own emotional expression.
speaker-1 (31:59.702)
Right. Right. And to like care about that and to hold and to be able to be there for them through it, but not getting swept up in every person's, you know, not getting like taken on a ride with them, but holding that. And because, you know, the thing is, we see this again and again, when you hold people to a standard, they rise to that standard. And so holding them to like, I trust that you can.
know, that you're going to be okay. I know that you can handle this. But if you're like afraid of feeling, you can't relate to someone in that way. You can't help them in that way. You can't hold them in that way.
speaker-0 (32:41.474)
Yeah, you're making me think of this. I mean, I had, there's countless experiences I can think of, but when I was a nurse practitioner in training, I guess in graduate school, I had this OB round. I loved it. I loved working in like the small clinic, women's health clinic. Doctor, she was a doctor. And so I was like shadowing her and she was my preceptor. I was learning that way.
And I remember she delivered some news to this person. I don't even remember what it was about. This person starts bawling on the table and she goes, I'm going to give you a minute with that. And we walked out of the room and I was like, I mean, can't we like stay with this lady for a second and just like witness her? And to me that kind of speaks to a greater system that's like, oh, you're going to have emotions. We're going to let you deal with that. don't have anything for you.
versus the idea that like, yeah, thank you, I see you.
speaker-1 (33:46.83)
And also acknowledging it as part of your job and also a necessary part of the healing process.
speaker-0 (33:55.182)
That, yeah, before I like had more tool, like I, you know, we're expanding most of the time. Um, in the beginning of healing circle, we would just say like, see you and hear you. just, some, I knew this like backtalk thing of like trying to fix each other. I didn't even know about that, that that was like essentially damaging and like they didn't ask for your advice, all that. We just started saying that like if someone would make comments.
We're just like, see you or I hear you. But what I'm realizing is like, first of all, I don't need you to tell me anything more about what I'm feeling unless I asked for it. And then like, just to be seen and held, like these feelings are inside of us. They're like very real and they really do contribute to actual physiological effects. And so experiencing them,
it's part of the human experience and that we like try to take this out of medicine. Like really, I think it's been like systematically removed.
is just wild. I know there's, I understand like psychology, I would say is one of my biggest mentor teacher spaces where I go to like learn what medicine is saying about these things. And even within psychology, there's so much mind based thought versus like bringing in the whole body. Even though somatic is like a buzzword and everyone's doing it, they're not though.
Everyone is not doing it. and so what happened to me after EK, by the way, that, I do this wealth work also. didn't even talk about that, but just I'm realizing that EK kind of helped me be like, I'm like loving to like hate on these people that are like my people. Like I will never work with them again. And then I had this realization of like,
speaker-0 (36:01.134)
no, those are my people and like what, you know, a system that I was like deeply involved in for decades. I have a lot of compassion now. Yeah.
speaker-1 (36:17.94)
Yeah, because everybody is just doing their best. And especially
speaker-0 (36:23.576)
doing what we have been taught.
speaker-1 (36:26.528)
Yes, exactly. Especially people in medicine doing what you've been taught.
speaker-0 (36:30.904)
good students. They're so, they're such good students. Like, they're so like when we do these like, weird practices, like there's this one thing I do called swamping, which is from Mama Gina. like a, it's a pleasure practice of its emotional expression. They're just like, no, how do you do? So we have to work on that as well. Like just, we're just playing. You don't have to get it right.
It doesn't have to be perfect, which is also they're like, it doesn't have to be perfect. my God. Yay. I mean, they're really my people. was like, how do you do this? I'm going to do this exactly right. You know.
I don't want to kill anybody.
speaker-1 (37:09.144)
Yeah.
Yeah, wow.
speaker-0 (37:18.536)
but I was having an awareness that there's this, the person who introduced me to existential King, who is now my wealth mentor. I work with these, I call them the wealth witches. They call themselves something else, but you know, everyone's a version of a witch for me. they are financial professionals who have broadened spiritual. like people on the edge of financial awareness, they're building.
their awareness around life insurance and other products that support people to grow wealth outside of banks, which do not grow wealth for us. And then bringing that to the spiritual folks. And so my mentor is this person who introduced me to existential kink. And so when I got certified, they were like, my God, you're an EK coach.
Everyone had read the book and they're like, come talk to us about this. I just did when you texted me asking if I wanted to be on this podcast, I was literally doing like an EK workshop. So it occurred to me how sexy EK is and how there's, yeah, I'm like playing with how to weave it into this work with the medical folks. Cause the word existential, like that's a cool word in medicine, I think.
speaker-1 (38:43.446)
But there's also the kink part.
speaker-0 (38:46.558)
where we camp. We like camps and retreats. Yeah, I am curious as this unfolds who will allow me in their space with all these dangerous words I'm using.
speaker-1 (39:06.286)
Okay.
speaker-0 (39:11.032)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (39:13.132)
So this B Camp program that you're doing, if somebody listening is in the medical professional and they want to get in on this, how do they find it? What do they do?
speaker-0 (39:26.018)
Yes. Well, we're about to do a whole workshop launch thing where we're going to talk about what it is and invite more people to join. Cause at the moment it's medical students who are really cool. But we want to invite, you know, open it up to providers. are actually the gamut. Folks are working. Folks are going to be working someday in the profession. And so you can go to my Instagram and just connect with me and I'll keep you posted. And it's at the
at the dot alchemy of an L. But if you just Instagram search an L, A-N-N-E-L-L-E, you'll find me because there's not many of us. And yeah, I'll make announcements on there. That's the best way.
speaker-1 (40:15.438)
And we'll put a link in the description so people can just click on that and find.
speaker-0 (40:16.974)
Yeah.
And yeah, DM me, can talk to you. and we'll be doing some posting about what has transpired the other times we've done it. And I will say, I'll do a little bragging that there, think one of the reasons why we were hired again, I say this is the third, but it's actually the fourth B camp. forgot there was like a mini B camp we did, with these medical folks. They, the,
the that do at the valuations, they said were the best they've ever received for any program that they've ever done.
speaker-1 (40:56.939)
Amazing.
speaker-0 (40:58.062)
Okay, medical people, so let's have some fun, do a little shadow work, you know, change the system. No big deal.
speaker-1 (41:05.097)
Amazing.
speaker-1 (41:08.92)
How long is this program?
speaker-0 (41:11.384)
So the B camp has been three nights, four days, but this one we're taking, we're getting more time. So it's April 1st through the 5th at the Quaker Center in Ben Lomond, California. You're surrounded by redwoods. It's just astounding. So it's four nights, five days. So we get more time to feel. I realized I was given this extra time so we can play with feeling. We're do a whole thing around feeling our feelings.
speaker-1 (41:40.801)
Amazing.
speaker-0 (41:42.69)
Yes.
speaker-1 (41:44.226)
Wow. Well, thank you so much for sharing this, your whole story with us. And also, yeah, and for doing this work. And I'm so glad you're, yeah, I'm so glad you're like sticking with your people.
speaker-0 (41:58.444)
Yeah, sorry y'all. had to, it's happened. This is burnout. Burnout looks like, I don't ever want to talk to you again. And then you got to go like, fills up and realize I am you. I love you.
speaker-1 (42:10.1)
Yes. And that's so natural. That's so natural. You need to like to recover.
speaker-0 (42:17.039)
I really did. I needed a whole year of no medical people except for my oncologist.
speaker-1 (42:29.184)
Amazing.
speaker-0 (42:29.454)
She's such a classic, by the way. So my oncologist, really do love and appreciate her, but she is...
Like I've said that I get like love and healing and feeling from all the healer people I see because she's like, I'm always like a little bit trying to make her laugh and she's just, I'm like, whatever, she knows science. So I love her.
speaker-1 (42:52.246)
Yeah, and it sounds like she led you to amazing.
speaker-0 (42:57.016)
Yeah, I'm definitely grateful for her.
make shit happen on the side of things that CAT scans and all that. So grateful.
speaker-1 (43:10.19)
Yeah, I mean, I just want to say, I just want to end this by saying that I do think there are issues in our medical world, like in this country and in the world and just like there are things that are not like perfect, for sure, 100%. And I am so grateful to modern medicine. Modern medicine has saved my life multiple times and the lives of people that I love. Yeah.
And so it's amazing. It's an amazing, amazing, amazing gift. I just, feel like a lot of people, can be trendy to kind of like hate on modern medicine and I'm so grateful for modern medicine. I'm just infinitely grateful.
speaker-0 (43:56.91)
This medicine I'm taking, like what the actual fuck, that's insane to me. It's making my, I don't have to do anything, I just take this thing and it does work.
speaker-1 (44:01.686)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (44:07.342)
That is so amazing. So I did just want to say that I really deeply appreciate modern medicine and all the people who are making it happen and doing their best.
speaker-0 (44:20.502)
And just imagine what expansion could happen if we brought feeling into this container. I really think.
speaker-1 (44:30.646)
Yeah, just more integration. Yeah, more integration. And I think we're moving in that direction. So and you're helping.
speaker-0 (44:34.488)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (44:39.32)
So I think so. Well, thank you.
speaker-1 (44:42.892)
you grow in what you're doing, know, like that's just, it's exactly what we need.
speaker-0 (44:47.938)
Yeah, thanks for the reassurance because well, it's a rough ride being burnt out, which is why I would like to support people not to so that we can stay in this. yeah, healing expands beyond just what's happening in one exam room.
speaker-1 (45:06.446)
Absolutely. Amazing. Well, thank you. Thank you, everybody. So fun. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Penetrate Radio. I have a free guided existential King practice if you are somebody who is new to this work, if you're new to EK, if you haven't read the book, if you're just not a reader, or if you need a refresher, you can get this you can download it right now for free and use it to learn how to
speaker-0 (45:13.23)
Watch it.
speaker-1 (45:35.946)
do EK and just follow along as a guided practice. It is meant for beginners. So I just want to let you know that that's available and you can find it at the link in the description. Also in the link in the description, you can find more information about our membership, Dominion, a field of radical approval. Dominion is less than the cost of a single manicure each month and it's just a wonderful place to do this work in community.
We have seen time and time again that being witnessed and witnessing others in this work is wildly helpful and validating. The last thing I want to mention is that a lot of our guests talk about the coach certification program penetrate that they went through with myself and Layla. I want to let you know that we are going to be offering that same program again in 2027. And you can find a wait list in that same link if you're interested.
in getting information about that when it becomes available. And I think this goes without saying, but if you see anyone else offering a program called Penetrate, that is also a coach certification program related to this kind of work, that is absolutely not the same program that Leila and I have taught and that the people in this podcast are talking about when they talk about our coach certification program, Penetrate. So I just wanted to make that super clear.
Layla and I share a lot of hard won wisdom through that program, so if we're not the ones teaching it and offering it, then it is definitely not the same program. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Penetrate Radio, and I will see you in the next one. Ciao.
New to Lucy’s work?
Start with Lucy Baldwin’s complete overview of Shadow Alchemy here:
Lucy Baldwin’s Shadow Alchemy Hub
Penetrate Radio explores shadow work, desire, magic, embodiment, self-honesty, radical approval, Existential Kink, and the hidden patterns that shape our lives from underneath.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is B Camp?
B Camp, or Bitch Camp, is Annelle Taylor’s work for medical professionals, using embodiment, archetype, feeling, shadow work, and collective healing practices to support people working inside intense healthcare systems.
How can Existential Kink help with burnout?
Existential Kink can help people notice the hidden patterns, identities, resentments, pleasures, and protections inside burnout. This can support more agency, self-contact, emotional expression, and spaciousness.
Is this episode anti-medicine?
No. Lucy and Annelle both express deep gratitude for modern medicine. The episode honors science while also asking how medicine might become more humane, embodied, emotionally honest, and supportive for both patients and providers.
Why do medical professionals need space to feel?
Medical professionals often work in high-pressure environments where emotion is suppressed. Having space to feel can help reduce repression, improve self-awareness, support compassion, and prevent emotional leakage or burnout.
What is the difference between empathy and compassion?
Empathy often means feeling with or taking on another person’s emotion. Compassion can care deeply while still remaining grounded, boundaried, and able to hold the other person’s capacity.
Next Steps
If this episode resonated with you, the next step is DOMINION: A Field of Radical Approval.
DOMINION is Lucy Baldwin’s space for practicing radical approval, shadow integration, desire work, and the deeper transformation at the heart of Shadow Alchemy.
You can also continue exploring Lucy’s current offerings, free practices, podcast links, and other work here: